Game Development: Darkwood Gilding

[Potjeh]

I don't think the combat system is just a problem in PvP though. The reason that a lot of people find the combat uninteresting is because there's a lack of variety. There's a reason most MMORPGs have discrete classes. Fighting tough mobs as a team where everyone has a specific role and success depends on every member coordinating well is great for socialization between players. So yeah, I'd like to see a combat system where you need to assemble a team with different specializations to go on a PvE "raid" like a mammoth hunt or a dungeon run.

[dagrimreefah]

Our ambition has never been to create a PvP game. Our ambition has always been to create a game with PvP. There's a huge difference.

I have never claimed to be good at PvP, nor even particularly interested in it for its own, competitive, sake, but I love the fact that interacting with other players in game has a real sense of danger and adventure to it. I have had so many memorable moments of playing incognito, meeting other players, and the threat or actuality of violence has been very important to almost all of them.

(The stranger danger I've felt when encountering people while rummaging through old ruins, that time me and another guy stole eachother's boats and fired bows at eachother across a river, or even the hesitancy with which you interact even with the 90% of people who ultimately aren't out to kill you, &c).

That was always the vision, the game has always -- even with dumber rulesets than the ones in place now -- delivered on that, and that's why I have wanted to have a game with PvP. My skillset is not primarily in balancing the exactitudes of how it plays out, and I do indeed lack both the experience to do that properly, the real, burning interest (as I do not use these systems much myself), and, frankly, the time. I do not really want to fight -- I want to play a fairly casual survival/gardening/walking simulator RPG with a touch of poetry -- but the potential for fighting is important to me, as it relates to the game having real, tangible consequences.

Double based

[Zentetsuken]

(The stranger danger I've felt when encountering people while rummaging through old ruins, that time me and another guy stole eachother's boats and fired bows at eachother across a river, or even the hesitancy with which you interact even with the 90% of people who ultimately aren't out to kill you, &c).

You were never in danger, this was all in your head. If you were playing at a time when there were abandoned villages, running in to another person while inside of one would have been comparable to winning the lottery.

Real "stranger danger" happens during the first few months of the world when there are PVPers hunting around active villages. Most stranger danger at any point in the world is likely the result of PVPers finding active areas and wandering around them.

I don't think you have played actively enough or invested enough real time in a character or encountered actual ganking situations enough times (or after enough effort) to understand how unfun it is. That being said, I don't think it's difficult to imagine how shitty and unfun it is given the endless accounts of people posting their unfun experiences throughout the course of any given world.

Being unable to play a multiplayer game that appeals to longterm commitment and time investment with friends without the worry of being able to lose it all to somebody who has spent incredible amounts of time and effort developing bots, clients, strategies and metas for performing a swift and easy kill that ultimately never put them in at any risk is not fun.

If this is something that is very important to you then maybe the solution is literally stat and quality caps. Make longterm commitment and time investment less meaningful. Make every number in the game cap at 200. Characters are worthless and more time spent is just more alts made, more security via more maxed characters and more potential acutal game-skill and knowledge gained?

but the potential for fighting is important to me, as it relates to the game having real, tangible consequences.

For people who are exceptional at PVP, play in factions and know it well, there are zero consequences. All of the negative consequences are for the other 99% of the population.

[*] I do not use the PvP systems often enough to have very informed opinions on the details of them.

we know

So, idk where I'm going with this,

same

good cases for alternative rulesets entirely

opt-in-only PVP or make more time spent =/ more shit lost

just make pvp optional

unintelligible trolling

You seem like a good person.

k ty

[wonder-ass]

I think gear should be streamlined for pvp the barrier for entry should be SUPER EASY, death should simply be bragging rights with a penalty that lasts for x days and add the same equalizer from ua mc to stats.
the difference between a steel plate and greaves vs bronze plate is so massive its not even feasible to fight them, the only difference between these 2 should be drastically higher soak so it lasts longer.

the jug meta was refreshing. u dont have a b12? dont worry u can actually fight back. it was so effective at streamlining combat that people new to haven combat were able to have a fighting chance vs veterans.
also Initiative points decay would help a lot for smaller groups in combat but that one is controversial so cba.

p.s. your player base really HATES carrying enough water to escape a pvp interaction why not simplify drinking? why force us to carry 30 waterflasks.

[jorb]

You were never in danger, this was all in your head.

Happened twice last world, bruh.

[Clemins]

When I started playing Haven in 2013, I started knowing full well that the game was permadeath (it's less so now with the updated numens and such) and I loved the sense of danger. It made having anything feel more valuable knowing that someone else would try to take it from me. I didn't actually learn to fight competitively until last year around this time because I decided that I wanted to be that bandit in the stories I've hear throughout the years, even in some cases, the hero. Haven combat isn't flashy and super deep as many of the current game market offers, but it's unique and has it's charms. BUT, in all honesty, the reason it took me roughly 7 years to delve into PVP combat was because it's not really explained all that well. Luckily, I had someone who took me under his wing and taught me everything I know, but without that, it definitely would have been pretty difficult learning all the little things that go into fighting besides openings/closing (IE: running, drinking, critters, swimming, etc etc.) Perhaps I may be a bit off the mark with this assumption, but I feel like a lot of people who don't like PVP simply don't understand it and are frustrated when it's presented to them against their will. If thats the case, then I understand.

I genuinely like fighting in Haven and really do hope other people who are interested in it give it a try and accept the minor consequences that come with a full-loot pvp sandbox. Besides being a necessary evil in a game like this, I think it truly adds enjoyable gameplay. It's certainly not for everyone, but to all those who are either aware of PVP or became aware when you ran into it, base your decision to play on it instead of trying to neuter it or remove it outright. Constructive criticism is a good thing, but spiteful criticism on systems you don't fully (or at least mostly) understand only serves to promote cascading changes to other elements you might not see as connected.

[ItsFunToLose]

unintelligible trolling

You seem like a good person.

k ty

Not even you likes you.

[dagrimreefah]

When I started playing Haven in 2013, I started knowing full well that the game was permadeath (it's less so now with the updated numens and such) and I loved the sense of danger. It made having anything feel more valuable knowing that someone else would try to take it from me. I didn't actually learn to fight competitively until last year around this time because I decided that I wanted to be that bandit in the stories I've hear throughout the years, even in some cases, the hero. Haven combat isn't flashy and super deep as many of the current game market offers, but it's unique and has it's charms. BUT, in all honesty, the reason it took me roughly 7 years to delve into PVP combat was because it's not really explained all that well. Luckily, I had someone who took me under his wing and taught me everything I know, but without that, it definitely would have been pretty difficult learning all the little things that go into fighting besides openings/closing (IE: running, drinking, critters, swimming, etc etc.) Perhaps I may be a bit off the mark with this assumption, but I feel like a lot of people who don't like PVP simply don't understand it and are frustrated when it's presented to them against their will. If thats the case, then I understand.

I genuinely like fighting in Haven and really do hope other people who are interested in it give it a try and accept the minor consequences that come with a full-loot pvp sandbox. Besides being a necessary evil in a game like this, I think it truly adds enjoyable gameplay. It's certainly not for everyone, but to all those who are either aware of PVP or became aware when you ran into it, base your decision to play on it instead of trying to neuter it or remove it outright. Constructive criticism is a good thing, but spiteful criticism on systems you don't fully (or at least mostly) understand only serves to promote cascading changes to other elements you might not see as connected.

+1 optional pvp is gay carebear shit and makes the game stale. I'm in no way shape or form a major league PVPer but eliminating that potential danger kills the fun. Might as well play shitty boring ass Valheim in that case.

[Fostik]

Our ambition has never been to create a PvP game. Our ambition has always been to create a game with PvP. There's a huge difference.

Just to note, since 2015 release very few of ad-hoc or legacy haven mechanics of the game were updated or reworked, like farming which looks even more primitive than early minecraft. The only mechanics that were ever reworked is PvP, stat gain and food system complication, stats influence on PvP, and mechanics gating top PvP players or just complicate progress. Although the game has filler patches which fills it with content with questionable need.
The focus for all changes and updates is always thin layer pvp players who unironically enjoy spending months of time with crazy minmaxing without sleep for questionable enjoyable meteor fight. Other playerbase is never in focus, who came to play crafting, trading and deep mechanics game which tries to be pvp game at most.

[Cayur]

Could always have a server akin to valhalla, where you take player input on PvPvE related changes and keep them on that server until it feels ready to move into the main game.

This doesn't have to be something you dedicate all your development time to, even just as a side project and have one day a month orso where you stream the changes and get feedback from the community in real-time.
That way you won't feel so burnt out when you've spent a month only on PvPvE and it ends up being disappointing and you won't have players crying about PvPvE only updates.