Prelude: World 16.1

[Jenno]

W16.1 waiting room thread.
We are merely shitposting.

[TemuWarrior]

I was talking with loftar, they will consider everything

[TemuWarrior]

twice

[Mr_Bober]

either break the AI, or just have way higher stats/be on a horse. Every """hard""" encounter in haven is either [thing] has very big numbers, or dungeon spawn many [thing]. I think if haven wants to take the route of being more PVE focused the problem is not with the foundation, it's the literal zero creativity/care put into any PVE encounter.

Instead of asking for bears to be harder to cheese, which would just make them a stat/groupsize check, why don't you guys try to think of a single set of mechanics for a PVE encounter that would be fun and or skill based.

That's what i've been saying, mfrs be like "remove cheesing" okay, then we just do a statcheck (which the big groups will beat you to by weeks, i've seen hermit stats, most of you have month 2 stats 12 months into the world, eating mbc at 300 str) because that's all there is to non-cheesing pve. Have good enough gear and enough stats so the animal doesn't open you 50 in a hit. (Arguably week 1 bear hunting when you can't outrange it is more engaging than hunting it later when you can just one tap cleave it without cheesing)
There just isn't a fun pve system underneath the layers of cheesing. Go and hunt a whale and tell me it shouldn't be cheesable because somehow whale bonking a knarr in a few hits and being faster than you in the said knarr is fun? (perhaps a carryover from the good times boats got faster at higher ql).
Maybe instead of trying to fix all the 100s of methods of cheesing we make sure pve is actually fun without it when you have to do it daily?

Inb4 "you're a snail alt fuck you" dumfucks'

Edit: Also i heckin love group pve hunting, i've probably hunted more wolves as a group on a wagon this world than most of you guys in the last decade abusing the cheesing, it's fun (any activity with good friends is fun arguably) and it's usually faster than cheesing (imagine gathering aurochs like a retard). Issue arises when you have to hunt 400 mammoths because only 1% is actually worth something. Or when finding a whale takes 8 hours of swimming in a knarr and then if you want the boys to pull up they have to bring their own knarr to the other side of the world.
I feel like trolls are a very good example of what pve group challenges can be, at lower levels you really dont want that fucker to hit you which makes fighting it with a few boys just kiting it quite engaging (offset by the fact it can randomly KO everyone because it decided there is no path), but i suppose that's also "cheesing"? Like at what point do we consider it a legitimate strategy and at what point it's cheesing? is anything that's not just standing and 1v1ing the animals cheesing?

Honestly i'd be fine with removing the cheesing, just don't hunt whales ever and everything else is quite doable. Now are all of you hermits okay with not hunting anything bigger than a fox/boar for the first 5 months?

Sure, changing completely PvE to make it more fun would be great. But let's be realistic: they never will. Too much work, too much testing necessary, and likely too many people crying in their DMs if they did.

Removing cheesing (or rather making it harder) would slow down hunting progress and push people to cooperate more. That sounds good in my book.
Just like mine pyres made progression slower, and therefore the game last longer, so would making hunting more challenging (plus would make animal husbandry more relevant for hide/bones, which IMO should be boosted either way). Let's face it: they will never add enough content to make late game worth playing; right now they options are either making the worlds very short (3 months), so that the "goal" is to achieve everything in a short time (which most large village already do), or make changes that dilute the current content, slowing down progression so that it takes you months to achieve everything cause you can't rush it.

As for hermits, Haven is not a game built for single player. While some might have fun doing it, Hermiting is playing the game wrong on purpose. It's like trying to build a pretty base in an RTS, or playing an FPS with melee attacks only, or Civilization without settling new cities (except Venice - Civ V). Nobody stops you from doing it, but you will "fall behind" / lose if that's how you choose to play.

So if hunting has to become a group activity, that's fine. Larger villages will form, or people will go on hunts with their neighbours like they do for harder dungeons.
The only thing that really needs a serious overhaul would be whaling, which as you mentioned is currently not doable on knarrs.

[Robben_DuMarsch]

Reskinned albino animals with super speed and x5 stats, that automatically heal the second they can't path to you

[Schwarzvald]

If PvE server isn’t an option then incentivize PvP with Eroge/Vore elements.

[YellowGhostoMain]

Animal cheese shouldn't go away, but adding diverse options, like more "pack spawns" for people that can handle multiple enemies at the same time and reducing the need of scouting, and maybe "alpha" versions of animals with enhanced AI and better rewards.

[Schwarzvald]

Animal cheese is gay.

[Schwarzvald]

Imagine imagining

[Schwarzvald]

Whose gonna stop me