Game Development: Loose Ends

[Kaios]

These are just my opinions though, your anger stems from your belief that somehow myself and possibly some others have managed to sway the developers to ignore others and while that is the point of giving an opinion, to sway someone else's, I can assure you that over here in reality that is certainly not the case.

[LadyGoo]

These are just my opinions though, your anger stems from your belief that somehow myself and possibly some others have managed to sway the developers to ignore others and while that is the point of giving an opinion, to sway someone else's, I can assure you that over here in reality that is certainly not the case.

I think Jorb listens to you guys because you don't play the game as well Ok, kidding-kidding.

[Astarisk]

I don't like that you think that you're speaking for the "majority".
So basically, you're saying that anyone who plays this game for combat should fuck off? There is no other game that offers more interesting experience in terms of player combat for me and many others I know, if you know one, please enlighten me, I will definetly switch to the game since jorb threw a month of work in trashbin

Kaios wrote:
I enjoyed the simplicity of it and I think being in combat with the current system was much more enjoyable too because you aren't totally focused on scrutinizing your def/attack bars and their def/attack bars and what your IP is at and what their IP is at and their defenses and yours versus their attack and then add in multiple fighters to be worried about. The less to look at the better is my perspective.

You have to look at your 4 dimensions right now or you're gonna get 1shot, you have to look at enemies IP too, you can't ignore the enemie's IPs in card combat too just as in the new combat??????? there is even more things you need to watch over in the card combat. and i wont even talk about that if you have a wrong deck on you're going to die with no other options

Are you sure you are speaking for the majority? x] I think you are rather speaking for mostly your villagers (Who seem to be the ones who have been quite loud in these threads). Most people I know would have preferred to see updates geared towards the current system as oppose to the new one.

[jorb]

Ok, so here's where we're at.

There are presently three different systems we're looking at, namely... legacy, the presently running one, and the new one, and we feel that they all have their strengths and weaknesses respectively.

The primary reason why we have cold feet about pushing the new one to the server is that we have noticed, when reimplementing the animals to the new system, that there is a significant lack of dynamism in the new combat, at least in PvE. There is no real sense of performing smart, or interesting combinations, or of even responding to what the AI opponent does, but rather only a question of how much DPS I can generate in a fairly gold-fish like manner through long and repetitive cycles of jump-jump-jump-punch. We feel that, relative to this, the presently running system has the advantage that the various combat states are at least meaningful to respond to and keep track of.

We also feel that while maintaining the attack and defense bars may have a sound dampening effect in PvP combat, it slows ordinary PvE down to where you need to perform several cooldown cycles just to kill an ant.

PvE, in short, feels slow and undynamic, and that gives us pause, as we do not wish to push an invasive change like this if we aren't decently certain that it at the very least gives us a better foundation to stand on than what we have now. I can't quite shake the feeling that what we have done with the present testing server system is increase complexity by adding global states like offense and defense, but decrease dynamism by making the states less meaningful to respond to, and that feels like two wrongs that will never make a right.

The recent changes that we feel more or less unequivocally happy about are the changes to the combat school management and combat discoveries -- and I get the impression that those are generally less controversial -- so our present plan is to first try to push those changes to the presently running system, and see what that does, with an eye toward a more iterative approach to the future development.

I am not at all happy about spending this much time on these combat changes, but there is also never any point in crying over spilled milk. Devs suck, water is wet. Given the time we have already spent, and in the interest of avoiding throwing good time after bad, I think it might be wise at this junction to try to take a bit of a stop-loss and do some iteration on the presently running system, if the new one hasn't turned out the way we'd hoped.

[The_Blode]

nvm ignore me

[loftar]

but if you can get this new system to remove the age old problem of horrible collisions with everything and allow the player to sidle along objects

That hasn't anything to do with the combat changes, though.

[loftar]

There is no real sense of performing smart, or interesting combinations, or of even responding to what the AI opponent does, but rather only a question of how much DPS I can generate in a fairly gold-fish like manner through long and repetitive cycles of jump-jump-jump-punch. We feel that, relative to this, the presently running system has the advantage that the various combat states are at least meaningful to respond to and keep track of.

Just to clarify, I feel that this a somewhat of a problem in PvP too, not just in PvE. There are surely many other variables in PvP, so the problem might not be as pronounced, but nevertheless it seems there's a problem in merely being able to tell what maneuvers an opponent has activated but not really having any way to really "respond" to any of them.

[dzielny_wojownik]

I don't like that you think that you're speaking for the "majority".
So basically, you're saying that anyone who plays this game for combat should fuck off? There is no other game that offers more interesting experience in terms of player combat for me and many others I know, if you know one, please enlighten me, I will definetly switch to the game since jorb threw a month of work in trashbin

Kaios wrote:
I enjoyed the simplicity of it and I think being in combat with the current system was much more enjoyable too because you aren't totally focused on scrutinizing your def/attack bars and their def/attack bars and what your IP is at and what their IP is at and their defenses and yours versus their attack and then add in multiple fighters to be worried about. The less to look at the better is my perspective.

You have to look at your 4 dimensions right now or you're gonna get 1shot, you have to look at enemies IP too, you can't ignore the enemie's IPs in card combat too just as in the new combat??????? there is even more things you need to watch over in the card combat. and i wont even talk about that if you have a wrong deck on you're going to die with no other options

I think you are rather speaking for mostly your villagers (Who seem to be the ones who have been quite loud in these threads).

The only one who posts on the forums and actively play this game with is pan_w_okolurach which was quite obvious. So you want to say that everyone who is voicing opinion against current card system by saying combat is shit are my villagers? I didn't know I had so many friends on the forums haha are you trying to prank me you good at this x]]]
And I dont think pan_w_okolurach or me have ever said that they had to redo the combat completely, they pretty much did the combat by their own vision(adding def/atk bar and making cards to have "buff" effects) to make the game playable again just for the combat as endgame content, currently almost noone I know plays the game anymore just because of the combat now as endgame like many people did before when there's all this horse and bad card combat where all you do is spam parry and punch.

@jorb
Do you really think that in the current combat, spamming parry and punching the animal and then oneshotting it is a lot of dynamism? You can basically parry strongest creatures in the game currently to death with a 50-60 mc base alt with some bronze armour. If you would have actually given more moves right at beginning to fight the creatures with with the new combat and actually balancing them out it would had been way different than just "punch" "jump" for 10 minutes

[DDDsDD999]

There is no real sense of performing smart, or interesting combinations, or of even responding to what the AI opponent does, but rather only a question of how much DPS I can generate in a fairly gold-fish like manner through long and repetitive cycles of jump-jump-jump-punch. We feel that, relative to this, the presently running system has the advantage that the various combat states are at least meaningful to respond to and keep track of.

Maybe give animals more moves than "attack whenever it might break defense or have 100% offence" and "move that gains both offence and defense". The whole gaining both offence and defense at the same time is pretty bullshit and makes it impossible to kill animals. There should be a cost to gaining defense for animals, like slide turning offence into defense, or hunker down turning IP into defense. The whole thing where animals will just regenerate defense slightly faster than you can regenerate offence, while gaining offence is stupid. (Bats also have some maneuver that there's no explanation for what it does but I feel like it's easier to kill when it has it up)

Current combat isn't really much better with PvE being interesting. You spam parry or green/blue defence if you don't have armour/sword, punch down its maneuvers and sting/chop it whenever it runs out of maneuvers.

Also sucks how few moves we have in the beginning. Combat discoveries are so much more important and we still have so few moves to start with and gain so slowly.

[tyrtix]

I'll be happy when the devs will be wet