Game Development: Darkwood Gilding

[DoctorCookie]

The loss of a character that can be inherited from is not what drives people away. It is the months of work and community building smashed that is the issue. No counterbalance has been created in the hardcore pvp community and the overall community is too small to absorb the amount of griefing. My first world was 9, I have always been a pretty casual player. The community was tough but fair. It has changed.

[SnuggleSnail]

vanilla client should probably have a drink hotkey and readable openings or smthn

[DDDsDD999]

Make it so PvP is more accessible, and maintaining a combat-relevant character isn't so tedious/requiring bots. I think one of the biggest quit factors for faction players is having to do all of the chores to keep a good character/industry going. And making it more reasonable for non-faction players to have competitive characters is only a good thing. UA/MC equalization was very based for this, but the current hunger system is really retarded: viewtopic.php?f=48&t=72059&p=893387#p893387

[Zentetsuken]

When I started playing Haven in 2013, I started knowing full well that the game was permadeath (it's less so now with the updated numens and such) and I loved the sense of danger. It made having anything feel more valuable knowing that someone else would try to take it from me. I didn't actually learn to fight competitively until last year around this time because I decided that I wanted to be that bandit in the stories I've hear throughout the years, even in some cases, the hero. Haven combat isn't flashy and super deep as many of the current game market offers, but it's unique and has it's charms. BUT, in all honesty, the reason it took me roughly 7 years to delve into PVP combat was because it's not really explained all that well. Luckily, I had someone who took me under his wing and taught me everything I know, but without that, it definitely would have been pretty difficult learning all the little things that go into fighting besides openings/closing (IE: running, drinking, critters, swimming, etc etc.) Perhaps I may be a bit off the mark with this assumption, but I feel like a lot of people who don't like PVP simply don't understand it and are frustrated when it's presented to them against their will. If thats the case, then I understand.

I genuinely like fighting in Haven and really do hope other people who are interested in it give it a try and accept the minor consequences that come with a full-loot pvp sandbox. Besides being a necessary evil in a game like this, I think it truly adds enjoyable gameplay. It's certainly not for everyone, but to all those who are either aware of PVP or became aware when you ran into it, base your decision to play on it instead of trying to neuter it or remove it outright. Constructive criticism is a good thing, but spiteful criticism on systems you don't fully (or at least mostly) understand only serves to promote cascading changes to other elements you might not see as connected.

+1 optional pvp is gay carebear shit and makes the game stale. I'm in no way shape or form a major league PVPer but eliminating that potential danger kills the fun. Might as well play shitty boring ass Valheim in that case.

These are just unrealistic and/or dishonest takes.

Needing to be taken under the wing of a faction player who is exceptionally good at PVP, being taken in to a PVP faction, entrusted with a custom client and given loads of "secret knowledge" to perform in PVP without worry and enjoy the nuances of the metas is not a fair or realistic way for PVP to exist. I do not doubt that it is very fun but you might as well be playing a different game.

Eliminating PVP does not have to equal eliminating potential danger. PvE is just as, (if not more) broken and terrible than PVP.

The combat system as a whole is fundamentally and objectively bad. Animal AI is trash. The metas for both PvE and PvP largely involve abusing broken mechanics, and even when jorb attempts to patch them in little tidbits the players scoff at the feeble attempts and continue abusing broken systems in slightly different ways when needed (see: no more sparring during pvp).

Put PVP on the back-burner, make it optional for a couple worlds or remove it completely and focus development heavily on the combat system with ONLY PVE in mind. Make it a real survival game at its core, let us feel like we are in danger and make the game harder and more thrilling by upgrading the more core and fundamental systems. Add PVP back in when you have layed a foundation. You were prepared to do it for seasons, why not do it for PVP?

[dagrimreefah]

These are just unrealistic and/or dishonest takes.

Needing to be taken under the wing of a faction player who is exceptionally good at PVP, being taken in to a PVP faction, entrusted with a custom client and given loads of "secret knowledge" to perform in PVP without worry and enjoy the nuances of the metas is not a fair or realistic way for PVP to exist. I do not doubt that it is very fun but you might as well be playing a different game.

Eliminating PVP does not have to equal eliminating potential danger. PvE is just as, (if not more) broken and terrible than PVP.

The combat system as a whole is fundamentally and objectively bad. Animal AI is trash. The metas for both PvE and PvP largely involve abusing broken mechanics, and even when jorb attempts to patch them in little tidbits the players scoff at the feeble attempts and continue abusing broken systems in slightly different ways when needed (see: no more sparring during pvp).

Put PVP on the back-burner, make it optional for a couple worlds or remove it completely and focus development heavily on the combat system with ONLY PVE in mind. Make it a real survival game at its core, let us feel like we are in danger and make the game harder and more thrilling by upgrading the more core and fundamental systems. Add PVP back in when you have layed a foundation. You were prepared to do it for seasons, why not do it for PVP?

You realize that you're being histrionic right? You act like every single PVP encounter requires secret clients and exploits, and that every other online game with PvP on the face of the planet doesn't suffer from autistic poopsockers that meta the fuck out of every nook and cranny of the game's design. What do you suggest, we just eliminate PVP from ALL online games? But more importantly, why are you so gay?

I believe you're playing the wrong game. Barbie's Beach Adventure or Animal Crossing is more up your alley.

[dagrimreefah]

doublepost oops

[Mysia]

vanilla client should probably have a drink hotkey and readable openings or smthn

and hide trees

people will never able to agree so is the discussion productive nonetheless? what is the take away so far
personally i think kill people should be easier, raid base should be hard. and raid base already seems impossible if you actually build something solid. do people even bother building vaults anymore?

maybe a nidbane can be reworked too

[sMartins]

Totally agree with Jorb ..... pvp other than necesssity is the life of the game, the feeling of real danger is what gives sense to the entire game.

My 2 cents on pvp:

Pvp should be way more clever and unpredictable than it is right now, giving a way to outsmart your opponent in the case, for example, you don't want to fight but just flee ( ok, how do you take care of annoyance, add a move by which you can mark the opponent, follow him ..... and then start siege, another topic).

I'd do as following:

- every card has a certain number of uses you can play every turn (max 3 I'd say)
- cooldown starts, but not untill you reach the minimum distance for that type of attack ( this way we can include throwing weapons at distance with the same game)
- attacks have a certain % to hit the target (based on stats)
- moves decrease a certain % of the opponent attack
- add a new bar for water, stamina still fills with water and food but you have no direct control over it, faster to refill than now ..... this adds the planning and clever play
- attacks and moves use stamina as well as running and as well as everything does rn
- damage increase with stats or weapons .... maybe add here also some -25%+25% rng ... just to shake all the combat even a bit more
- mmmmhhh that's it I think

Example:

punch = 45% chance * n (delta between players stats)
dodge = 30% reduction to punch * n
tripping = 85% * n

player 1: uses 2 punches = 90%*n ( cause 2 punches is the max you can use )
player 2: uses 2 dodge and 1 tripping ( does nothing if not reducing some % of stamina maybe) = - 60%*n punches and + 85%*n tripping

At the end of the cooldown this can happen:
Result= 30% to address the punch to player 2 and 85% to address tripping on player 1

Those attacks and moves have consumed stamina (not based on stats) and if you use more than it refills you eventually end without .... giving to the other player the chance to flee.

This is the best I can think of rn, of course random numbers, just to give the idea.
With a system like that we can do pretty much anything.

Have fun

[ChildhoodObesity]

As other people have been saying the amount of water required in PVP is a bit ridiculous, the energy is a bit insane too. When you're running on sprint terrain which is usually at least 50% of the time in PVP you're basically drinking every two seconds and going through water extremely fast. It would be nice if the stamina drain from running on sprint speed at the very least was less, ideally it'd be less on forest terrain too.

Combat features for default client are absolutely necessary IMO. For one, openings and the entire combat UI being in the middle of the screen is very annoying as it blocks your character and makes it more annoying to see your movement and movement around you. Ideally a customizable combat UI or UI in general would be very nice. It's also extremely annoying how the chat bar takes up the entire bottom of the screen basically when you would realistically never need it to be this big.

Simplified Openings is another huge one. Knowing your openings as well as your enemies openings makes a really big difference, seeing an actual number value opposed to a bar slider where you're kind of just thinking "yeah that looks to be about 33% in red, 40% in blue, 50% in green but I guess I'm not really sure" in the middle of PVP where fast movements matter is YUGE.

The drink from all skins hotkey is absolutely necessary, you need too many hotkeys in this game and having one hotkey that drinks from your 30 different waterskins is actually a ridiculously big feature. Imagine the disadvantage you're at hotkeying 30 waterskins at 0-9, alt 1 0-9, alt 2 0-9, and making sure you're always drinking out of the correct skins that still have water in them compared to pressing 1 button every time you want to drink lol. Ideally the default client would have things like an F bar and Numpad bar that you can enable if you'd like to allow for easier hotkeying rather than the alt 1, alt 2 stuff.

There are a ton more features that would be nice to have like more defined cliffs and such, sometimes from certain angles cliffs are invisible and if you run into one while multiple people are right behind you you're basically just koed. A gob path that shows your player path so exactly where you're moving to is really nice. Also just more hotkeys for things like, aggro closest to you, pinging targets, switching targets, aggro closest to your mouse cursor, etc.

I think most players, even top pvpers would love for a standardized client that has everything necessary that everyone has access to. It's really lame that a large part of PVP is based on who has the best client features and it really does alienate most of the playerbase from it.

[ChildhoodObesity]

i think instead of regular stat gildings itd be cool if there were super rare items that dropped from dungeons or something that when gilded into armor or weapons gave bonuses like 3% dmg increase, etc. obviously the armor repair system would be necessary and this would work well on the actual weapon too

Also yeah, some randomized loot spawning in dungeons that you could gild to weapons and such would be really cool and make dungeons worth doing after you've used enough hearts that the +hp bonus is kinda worthless for the effort. Larpers who don't want to engage in PvP could do these PvE dungeons still and sell the drops at markets and such.

Hey let's not add another hoop to jump through for pvp, especially not the boring/broken dungeon system. Bat dungeons are so insanely retarded, people just don't complain more because they're just a luxury. And risking death because you're outlawed in those things is absolutely retarded.

Dungeons are kind of lame in the current PVE system, yeah. I think there's a lot of potential with them and they at least add some bit of endgame content. I actually enjoyed w10 when heart containers were big and people were spamming dungeons 24/7. Not being able to port out of one isn't a bad mechanic either, the added risk should be there for the reward. Currently there isn't really a reward though xd.