Game Development: Haven & Hearth on Steam

Announcements about major changes in Haven & Hearth.

Re: Game Development: Haven & Hearth on Steam

Postby SiO2 » Mon Sep 30, 2024 12:04 am

Audiosmurf wrote:Cannot stress to you guys enough how badly your policy on botting is gonna be received by steam normies. Seriously.

What if normies will have access to it?
22nd_ChuckNorris wrote:pretty much this ^ and also the stance on custom clients that are much better for pvp and pve than the standard client, steam reviews will completely rip these 2 points into overhelmingly negative.

If they will enforce custom clients to be only public, it will change everything. However it will require hard and tedious manual moderation to ensure no data leaks allowed.
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Re: Game Development: Haven & Hearth on Steam

Postby Quariator » Mon Sep 30, 2024 12:12 am

jpjpjpppjp wrote:Steam won't stop multiboxing, it will just be more difficult to setup. Multiboxing is always going to be a thing and so, the steam release should support it easily as well.
Multiboxing is only a thing because the game is designed to incentivize it with actions taking forever such as mining, paving, terraforming, etc...
You should be able to open Haven's Steam version and choose to login with how many different characters you want at the same time.
Multiboxing is just human botting.


If devs cannot make it so multiboxing isn't beneficial for the player or possible to do then I agree it should be broadly available and built into the base client, but I don't think that seamless connection between two ecosystems is necessary for that either.

strpk0 wrote:i hope you realize they cannot enforce blocking custom clients from the server. All this will turn into is extra hurdles for authenticating into the server, and even less people having the technical know-how for connecting to the steam server from a custom client

if you're worried about "sweats" and the playing field being level, this only makes the problem much worse


All I'm advocating for is that every custom client is forced to be public via workshop, not that custom clients shouldn't be a thing.
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Re: Game Development: Haven & Hearth on Steam

Postby donatas081294 » Mon Sep 30, 2024 12:16 am

Pretty sure devs choose the best time to go on steam. Before steam seemed like only AAA games can go on it, nowdays any game. From patreon hentai game to fan made spoof game like on newgrounds. So hopefully the critism won't be too harsh. The game is niche and I hope the devs know that too. So don't be expecting lots and lots of players from now on, but hopefully the server can hold and manage with a huge influx of players for the first time as it will be a "new" game on steam.
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Re: Game Development: Haven & Hearth on Steam

Postby Nocturnal-Rainbows » Mon Sep 30, 2024 12:19 am

Dude, you guys are placing way too much fucking emphasis on Steam reviews. If you knew what I know then you'd know that this game is never going to get glowing reviews on steam. Ever.
I played a game called Souldiers, it's a metroidvania basically. Game had 3 difficulty settings, easy normal and hard, the usual. Reviews tore the game to fucking shreds because these entitles little fuccbois couldn't bring themself to play on the easier modes which were designed specifically for them and so they complained that the game was too hard and it got review bombed (and then ultimately ruined by the devs caving in and making hard mode piss easy to placate them) (((Devs ruined the game for nothing btw, those types of players don't come back regardless of what you do to appease them so all the devs ended up achieving was ruining their game, alienating their current fanbase and not winning back any of the people that bitched for the very changes they wanted the devs to make)))

A permadeath, full loot game in which you can lose your entire base if you place the wrong fucking pali gate down or forget to renew your claim after you're killed and somebody studies it was never in a million years going to be the apple of steam players eyes. You're living in some fucking lala land that simply doesn't exist outside of fantasy if you thought there was anything that could be done to placate these kinds of 'people'.
Most people do not like difficulty. Dark Souls is what the common casual considers 'peak difficult' and Souls like games are laughably easy.

I swear, within a month of this steam release you should fully expect non-troll posts on the forum about people quitting because they raided an ant nest and a fast ant knocked their ass out or an owl eagle flying over their base and fucking them up while they panic so hard that they can't even walk into their house which is a few feet away or trying to mine a wall and getting their face caved in in by a massive cave in, or not paying attention to bats and getting mobbed by them in a cave or dying from multiple adder bites or having somebody break their dugout from under them or having the ocean do that for them.

I dunno what fucking audience you think this steam release is going to bring but it's certainly not the casual shitters.
They need to have their hands held at all times. Haven doesn't do that; you're dropped into the world and basically have to figure out everything yourself because the tutorial quests that are in the game are barebone as fuck.
Their ADHD Zoomer brains need constant stimulus and instant gratification. They're going to expect their crops to be grown after 20 minutes like they're playing fucking Stardew Valley or some shit.
They're going to shit themselves and bitch and moan on twitter and in the Steam forum when some player calls them some totally problematic slur they don't like :( and they'll demand J&L do something about it, and when they don't they're going to have a fucking meltdown which is all too common these days.

This game in its current state is never going to win this sort of audience over. It's always going to be niche unless it gets watered down into being just some other garbage mainstream slop. I thought this was common knowledge tbh.
Best we can hope for with the Steam release is that it finds likeminded individuals such as ourselves, but I'm really not expecting even triple or double the usual numbers we get. Maybe an initial spike but there's obviously going to be poor retention. Hell, there's poor retention even amongst the regulars, which is one of the many reasons as to why I've been advocating for shorter world cycles for years now.
Last edited by Nocturnal-Rainbows on Mon Sep 30, 2024 12:22 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Game Development: Haven & Hearth on Steam

Postby strpk0 » Mon Sep 30, 2024 12:20 am

Quariator wrote:
All I'm advocating for is that every custom client is forced to be public via workshop


yes, and this is the part that is not technically enforceable

also, not everybody is willing to run IT support on behalf of the devs, maintain and develop a client for the entire community for free and now ALSO upload it to the workshop, and deal with whatever headaches that will involve

like I said before, this is just an overall worse experience for everyone involved, and now pretending that either:
1. the one public custom client remaining out there will be gracious enough to put up with this added bullshit
2. the "sweats" with the good clients will now decide to publish their hard work instead of just figuring out a way around this barrier

are both very out of touch and copium-induced takes

what this is going to turn into is even less sweats with even higher of an advantage, and the few remaining public custom clients out there likely dying out if the workshop thing turns out to be a pain in the ass (as it will likely be, how much time do you honestly think the devs put into thinking about this?)
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Re: Game Development: Haven & Hearth on Steam

Postby loftar » Mon Sep 30, 2024 12:30 am

Thuzzy wrote:Why would account linking be necessary? Simply allow Seatribe accounts to connect to S1.

Well, one thing I was hoping to accomplish was just simplicity, in that if you launch via Steam, you get to the Steam server(s), and if you launch via the website, you get to the non-Steam server. No at-login server selection dialogs (where new players don't even realize what the difference is) or anything like that.

We'll be considering our options, though.
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Re: Game Development: Haven & Hearth on Steam

Postby TheServant » Mon Sep 30, 2024 12:35 am

loftar wrote:
Thuzzy wrote:Why would account linking be necessary? Simply allow Seatribe accounts to connect to S1.

Well, one thing I was hoping to accomplish was just simplicity, in that if you launch via Steam, you get to the Steam server(s), and if you launch via the website, you get to the non-Steam server. No at-login server selection dialogs (where new players don't even realize what the difference is) or anything like that.

We'll be considering our options, though.


dont understand a thing about steam but, games like albion and osrs that let you play within steam and nosteam in the same server with different launchers is not a reality for hnh?
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Re: Game Development: Haven & Hearth on Steam

Postby loftar » Mon Sep 30, 2024 12:40 am

TheServant wrote:dont understand a thing about steam but, games like albion and osrs that let you play within steam and nosteam in the same server with different launchers is not a reality for hnh?

No, in theory it could be, but if we also want to do the shorter world experiment along with keeping W15 around for longer, that would mean having to choose between them at some point, and I had been hoping to be able to keep a clean separation between them.
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Re: Game Development: Haven & Hearth on Steam

Postby Dawidio123 » Mon Sep 30, 2024 12:43 am

loftar wrote:
Thuzzy wrote:Why would account linking be necessary? Simply allow Seatribe accounts to connect to S1.

Well, one thing I was hoping to accomplish was just simplicity, in that if you launch via Steam, you get to the Steam server(s), and if you launch via the website, you get to the non-Steam server. No at-login server selection dialogs (where new players don't even realize what the difference is) or anything like that.

We'll be considering our options, though.

Ye but other than some simplicity (which is not something one should expect from hafen anyways ¦] ) you basically split people into two servers for no good reason, make alt/account sharing a pain for steam users (and sadly game incentivizes that) and a whole lot of other issues. When games like poe or albion entered steam they just allowed ppl to choose how they want to play the game without splitting the server into steam and non-steam.

Allowing both steam and non-steam users to play both on the "semi-permanent" (W15) and short worlds (S1...) would make a lot more sense and in the long run make it simpler at the small cost of the upfront "complexity" (which could be partly avoided with good UI/UX decisions).

What Salem does is make a "permanent" world which is providence and the "expeditions" which are very similar in concept to the short reset worlds you guys want to make, they can be chosen on the character creation and you spawn in either of them based on your choice, all from the same account.
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Re: Game Development: Haven & Hearth on Steam

Postby Mashadar » Mon Sep 30, 2024 12:45 am

loftar wrote:
Thuzzy wrote:Why would account linking be necessary? Simply allow Seatribe accounts to connect to S1.

Well, one thing I was hoping to accomplish was just simplicity, in that if you launch via Steam, you get to the Steam server(s), and if you launch via the website, you get to the non-Steam server. No at-login server selection dialogs (where new players don't even realize what the difference is) or anything like that.

We'll be considering our options, though.

You don't even have to make a fancy UI for it, just allow the non-Steam clients to connect to the Steam servers with the usual authentication method, using a Seatribe account.

People can edit the server address themselves if they want their client to connect to the Steam servers.
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