Game Development: Siege Chess

[Kaios]

(Anvils can just be picked up and carried away! Why not make it a static object that can't be moved?).

That sounds quite interesting actually, even if the anvil (or insert other industry related object here) ended up being somewhere in the heart of a vault which is in the heart of a village which is in the heart of a kingdom I still like the idea of that.

[Astarisk]

That sounds quite interesting actually, even if the anvil (or insert other industry related object here) ended up being somewhere in the heart of a vault which is in the heart of a village which is in the heart of a kingdom I still like the idea of that.

The game still has plenty of room for mechanics and features that encourage not only attacking, but defending. I believe I've been involved in almost every major siege in Hafen and no one has really put forth the effort into defending their home. There exists no real attachment to your village or realm really. Everyone is instead attached to their character (Even when being KO'd was the most likely outcome!) and pride, they never really try to put up a defense.

Even that anvil idea is flawed in that you always have metal bars on hand that can quickly replace it. If we want to see actual defenses we need actual reasons not to let your village be exposed. Currently people are just more attached to their characters than their home. But first we need a well defined siege system in place.

[Kaios]

take notes loftar next April Fools you can glue everyone's anvils to the ground

[loftar]

As I've said before, focus PvP on other areas than base raiding. Look at the flaws of localized resources and realm conflicts; I think there is far better design space there for PvP gameplay that could be fun for both sides.

To be sure, I'd love to do that (to some degree), but it's very much less than obvious how to mechanically differentiate claims/walls around resources and cairns from claims/walls around legitimate bases. (We have some quite loose and perhaps vain ideas, but to they extent that they could even theoretically be productive, they do require an underlying siege system that allows for some quantitative differentiation, unlike the previous one(s).)

Has siege ever been used properly in the way you envisioned, though, not counting sieges against inactive villages?

From what I know, the siege of Aurora last world actually seemed quite legit.

[shubla]

As I've said before, focus PvP on other areas than base raiding. Look at the flaws of localized resources and realm conflicts; I think there is far better design space there for PvP gameplay that could be fun for both sides.

To be sure, I'd love to do that (to some degree), but it's very much less than obvious how to mechanically differentiate claims/walls around resources and cairns from claims/walls around legitimate bases. (We have some quite loose and perhaps vain ideas, but to they extent that they could even theoretically be productive, they do require an underlying siege system that allows for some quantitative differentiation, unlike the previous one(s).)

Has siege ever been used properly in the way you envisioned, though, not counting sieges against inactive villages?

From what I know, the siege of Aurora last world actually seemed quite legit.

Defending should take X amount of effort. And if you use X amount of effort, it would be difficult to raid you.
Many people are ready to use X amount of effort for their main bases.
But for smaller resource claims or such, people would not use X amount of effort, so they could be raided.


Here is a chart.
Effort to raid should rise exponentially to the effort to defend.
Effort can be thought of as time, resources, whatever.

[neeco]

Effort to raid should rise exponentially to the effort to defend.
Effort can be thought of as time, resources, whatever.

I very much like this line of reasoning. I only see issues in balance and implementation. Bases that are large,and have a lot of work and time invested should be more effort to raid, and conversely, cheap, small claims should be easy to raid or remove.
This will bear some thought.

[bmjclark]

Tbh, i think bothering with siege is only going to irritate people and the people who want you to rework siege won't be happy unless they can walk up and push your wall over with little to no effort. I hope we can move on from this now.

I think if you imagine the game completely without any siege system, that would very much not be an improvement. Even if sieging is used seldom, it's still important to get it right.

I mean, yes. The issue is, you're never going to get it right in everyone's eyes. This is all an effort in futility. You have some small % of the players that want raiding to be doable in a short amount of time because "who cares if a hermit is on to watch their walls fall from inside their walls or not" (yes, someone in critiques and ideas actually said that) and you have literally 100% of the players in this game who don't want to wake up to their village burned to the ground because somebody raided them over night or while they were at work. How do you satisfy everyone? You can't. If you're not going to let people get obliterated because they dared go to work or school or sleep than the same people who started a shit storm over siege in the first place are going to continue to complain. And there isn't a world where getting raided in this game will be fun either.

[Mario_Demorez]

Why not just remove vandalism and walls. Maybe even theft and rage. That might be a way more interesting game.

[Mafious]

[quote="bmjclark" And there isn't a world where getting raided in this game will be fun either.[/quote]

truth.
even if its trivial to rebuild, no one enjoys being on the defensive side of things, when you know youll have to start over if you lose.
instead of focusing of sieges to village put some monument of mountain giants or stuff like that. becomes siegable every saturday or everyother saturday, wining that gets you whatever (realm bonuses or LP or credo like bonus). after that becomes siegable again. that could work for the bloodthirsty pvpers to test their might only risking a character they can rebuild easily late in the world and a chance to make mugs of their enemies skulls.

[Avu]

Where's the fixes for bypassing non rage protection (cleave, sand fleas etc...) pffft you really don't like to have players do you?