Prelude: World 14

[Granger]

Check out the eye of sauron stream at: https://twitch.tv/dolda2000

Impressive amount of Bots to watch.

[Aceb]

Huh.

Neat.

[Clemins]

Changing movement speed in any way will only hurt those who do not understand it. Making armor encumber "the titans" won't save your precious taproot laced spruce cap, its only going to change how big boi pvp fights work. 90% of you don't even understand how to run away currently, let alone fight. Adding any sort of inconvenience to the people who do, won't save you.

[Willberfollower]

Why does this game hate on pvp so much? There's already tons of pve and non pvp games out there. If your trying to make a simi realistic survival type mmo you can't limit pvp interactions. Most of the fun is interacting with other players and not knowing their intentions.

Examples of pvp hate.
-Both players need murder to murder.
-Once a player is knocked out it pops them out of combat and they can log off or teleport to hearth.
-Visitor gates (It just looks stupid there a open gate but the player and their base it 100% safe. Now players don't even need keys to go in out. Combined with key alts now bases are unlootable even if you get killed. Visitor gates still work on abandoned claims with 0 presence? Why do I need to completely leave the claim for the debuff to go away? Annoying in general I've gotten stuck in mines cause of these and had to hearth back when I was like super far away. Visitor gates should just be removed people just spam them all over the place)

-Knarr (cannot be lockpicked? why its a boat with a lock it should be pickable. Palisades have a lock but I'm okay with this not being pickable cause theres rams as a solution)
-Nidbanes (you don't even need to use any effort to punish criminals now)
-Can't travel on Thingwalls with redhanded status. (I kinda get it for hearths but Thingwalls you should be able to)
-Now sieges are more annoying

-Infinite other minor tweaks aimed at pvpers to prevent them from killing or stealing from other players

[VDZ]

Examples of pvp hate.

What you're posting are mostly examples of griefing hate, not PvP hate. They do not limit PvP itself, only the harm that could result from PvP (which should actually make players more willing to engage in PvP).

-Both players need murder to murder.

The PvP interaction ends when either participant has been neutralized. All murder would do is increase the penalty for losing in a PvP interaction, which discourages PvP.

-Once a player is knocked out it pops them out of combat and they can log off or teleport to hearth.

Again, the interaction has already ended. Anything done beyond this would be one-sided and serve only to increase harm which discourages PvP.

-Visitor gates (It just looks stupid there a open gate but the player and their base it 100% safe.

Visitor gates actually cannot be entered while in combat, which extends PvP interactions (players must find a non-visitor gate or other entrace to get to safety).

Now players don't even need keys to go in out. Combined with key alts now bases are unlootable even if you get killed.

Key alts were a thing long before visitor gates, and already made bases effectively unlootable when used. In this aspect visitor gates simply reduced the necessity of alting.

-Knarr (cannot be lockpicked? why its a boat with a lock it should be pickable. Palisades have a lock but I'm okay with this not being pickable cause theres rams as a solution)

As far as I'm aware siege weaponry also works to destroy knarrs. Or are you just upset that you cannot steal a knarr with only a fraction of the effort it takes to build one?

-Nidbanes (you don't even need to use any effort to punish criminals now)

Nidbanes are a PvP interaction. It's specifically an action a player takes to attack another player. It may be a cowardly way of attacking, but it is very much a PvP interaction.

-Infinite other minor tweaks aimed at pvpers to prevent them from killing or stealing from other players

Killing and stealing are merely the consequences of PvP encounters. They are not PvP themselves; PvP is the interaction that leads up to that result (typically combat). Neither death nor theft is required for PvP.

Visitor gates

These are absolutely required for peaceful interactions, precisely due to how dominant PvP is in the wild. There's a massive difference between peaceful interactions before visitor gates and peaceful interactions since the addition of visitor gates. They've enabled markets and other public places. Yes, it restricts your ability to bully weaker players, but it greatly enhances other player interactions.

[TwentyThree]

-snip-

I'm not much of a hardcore player, nor have I ever been, but you're 100% correct, literally all of these changes are good for more people wanting to play, but its hard to communicate that all of these safety nets exist to a new player. If you truly want to fuck someone over, you still can obviously, but the visitor gates specifically make playing peacefully with your neighbors very possible. The only people hating these things are people that don't really realize if you dont murderbone everyone in sight, the game will have more people to fight/pvp/loot/raid. I just wish raiders would go less "salt the earth" against random people.

Even with all these "carebear" mechanics, Haven is still one of the most punishing games, more so than a hardcore lootershooter like Tarkov or Rust. The only few things needed to make this game wildly popular is an even more simple fighting mechanic, and an optional (and very in depth) tutorial ingame. Something that explains how much safer a palisade is, how important it can be, when and how to use an airlock, visitor gates, anti-raid mechanics, how not to get murdered, stuff like that.

Even a few spirit NPC's along your spawn path to the wizard and fire, with examples of bases and pali's (and how to make them, plus the importance of them), would make sprucecaps livability skyrocket.

[The_Lich_King]

Armor speed reduction should happen.
its quite dumb that you can run around in 50kgs of steel plate armor without much problem

This game shouldn't reflect the real world 100% Its a rough anologue at best as is. Do you want us to remove hearth traveling and fast traveling? Do you want us to remove everything that doesn't align 100% with the real world?

Balance should come before realism in any video game.

[The_Lich_King]

Changing movement speed in any way will only hurt those who do not understand it. Making armor encumber "the titans" won't save your precious taproot laced spruce cap, its only going to change how big boi pvp fights work. 90% of you don't even understand how to run away currently, let alone fight. Adding any sort of inconvenience to the people who do, won't save you.

And it will give them free purfue to exploit that game mechanic to further make it impossible for you to win.

[Clemins]

Haven is still one of the most punishing games, more so than a hardcore lootershooter like Tarkov or Rust

Hard disagree.

an optional (and very in depth) tutorial ingame. Something that explains how much safer a palisade is, how important it can be, when and how to use an airlock, visitor gates, anti-raid mechanics, how not to get murdered, stuff like that.

I do wish the devs would have a more involved tutorial and explain how the game works to newer people, but there are resources out there that do a great job explaining the basics and more advanced look at some of Havens mechanics.

[VDZ]

Do you want us to remove hearth traveling and fast traveling? Do you want us to remove everything that doesn't align 100% with the real world?

With all the regulars coming back for the new world, this reminds me, I haven't seen Lunarius yet.