Game Development: Darkwood Gilding

[SnuggleSnail]

Not being able to port out of one isn't a bad mechanic either, the added risk should be there for the reward.

Every single dungeon's layout makes them insanely easily blockable, and small enough that player skill barely matters at all if you're getting dunked on by a bunch of people. Being put in situations where your options are either do a bunch of tedious shit with alts to be completely safe, or risk 100% dying with no recourse if ganked seems like awful gameplay to me.

Currently there isn't really a reward though xd.

It's rly easy to say "hahayes add more time consuming dungeon shit that's necessary for competitive PVP" when you're playing a fuckload and in a village with 100 people, but if the game wants to at least somewhat accommodate average players it should rly go in the opposite direction of making less things mandatory/time consuming.

I would rly liike to get to the point where things are accessible enough that I don't know the name and voice of literally every vaguely competent PVPer

[jorb]

Would the trick be to first lower the bar of entry by flattening the effort-to-advantage curve, but then add top tier drops in dangerous dungeons and such which could theoretically compensate for some part of that flattening?

[DDDsDD999]

Jorb, how many times have you had to help people out with bat dungeons? Please think about that before making them important for combat. But flatlining the rest of the tedium good.

Edit: Also, outlaw being such a high risk of death if you get surrounded by mobs, or someone invades you is pretty out of whack with everything else in the game besides water. Being incentivized to use crime alts to maintain character progression bad. Baiting people to leave scents and make them unable to do dungeons or risk dying would be prime griefing.

[Vigilance]

dungeons are fun but far from reliable in terms of their possibility to complete. i've seen dungeons personally where the first room was so utterly unattainable (like, 8+ white beavers constantly pouring out of a deep water room) and then others where it is a joke (kill a couple static white beavers, go next until you see the beebo king) and i think it'd be a bad meme if i had to grind dungeons to have a vague hope of having cool stuff.

[walacewalaci]

Definitely +1 to lowering to bar of entry but I think addressing major combat exploit and dungeon bugs and exploits should also be prioritized. As well as making the base client more customizable and adding some significant quality of life improvements that custom clients already have.

[Undefined]

The problem with PvP in Haven is that the entire system is flawed. I appreciate the attempt to create an entirely unique system and you have, but it's both unique and terrible.
As has been mentioned already in this thread and I've mentioned in the past, currently combat encourages not actually competing. I would encourage a full re-implementation after researching PvP systems from other MMO games to bring things more in line with classic formulas that most stick to as a foundation, for the simple reason that they're not broken and they work.
Siege mechanics don't matter imo, that's crappy but not really where the core problem lies. The key problem is in combat itself and if we want to distill it to the fundamental issue that I personally find unappealing, it's having absolutely no recovery mechanic.
If I take a slither of damage during combat there's no getting that back, so I'm going to spend the majority of my attention on not getting hit and not taking damage.
If my friend takes any damage I can do nothing tangible to assist them.
So what we do is run, constantly, for as long as possible and attempt to use the weight of numbers... I'm sure the people who consider themselves good at PvP as it stands will disagree, but I argue that there's actually very little room for individual skill. It's basically about target calling, hotkeys, and avoiding hitboxes. (and scripting)

[ChildhoodObesity]

Every single dungeon's layout makes them insanely easily blockable, and small enough that player skill barely matters at all if you're getting dunked on by a bunch of people. Being put in situations where your options are either do a bunch of tedious shit with alts to be completely safe, or risk 100% dying with no recourse if ganked seems like awful gameplay to me.

Well even regardless of this the people inside will likely get dunked due to almost definitely being low health if someone else enters the dungeon. I think high risk or almost certain death situations like this aren't horrible considering how unlikely it is to actually get fucked by people entering your dungeon (has happened less than a handful of times to pvpers in 4 worlds now). Death isn't necessarily a horrible experience now either. Everything that was annoying to regain can be easily done with numen and the stat loss isn't so huge that it'd make a person who enjoys the game quit.

It's rly easy to say "hahayes add more time consuming dungeon shit that's necessary for competitive PVP" when you're playing a fuckload and in a village with 100 people, but if the game wants to at least somewhat accommodate average players it should rly go in the opposite direction of making less things mandatory/time consuming.

I would rly liike to get to the point where things are accessible enough that I don't know the name and voice of literally every vaguely competent PVPer

I'm not suggesting that they make it so the rewards for the dungeons are absolutely mandatory necessarily. I think in any MMO though people who spend a shit ton of time doing something to better their character should be rewarded for this effort. Obviously this reward shouldn't be so OP that not spending a ton of time doing this puts other players at a severe disadvantage though. I also love the idea of one time dungeon rewards that you get like the bat dungeon one where they don't aggro you anymore. I'd love to see similar dungeon ideas such as slimes for example (no longer spawn slimes while mining), etc.

Edit: Also, outlaw being such a high risk of death if you get surrounded by mobs, or someone invades you is pretty out of whack with everything else in the game besides water. Being incentivized to use crime alts to maintain character progression bad. Baiting people to leave scents and make them unable to do dungeons or risk dying would be prime griefing.

I was actually doing a bat dungeon on an outlawed character 2 days ago and I hit a room with like 6 pink bats basically infinitely spawning more bats and it was a respawn room so these pink bats were also respawning xd. I got fully surrounded of course and couldn't get free and ended up getting KOed twice before making it out of the dungeon. I also had a similar experience yesterday in a bat dungeon where I got koed twice but without outlaw. I think something as simple as the bats or dungeon animals kind of dispersing more from the body after the person is koed as well as a small window before they reaggro once you get up again is enough to solve this problem. It'd also be nice if these pink bats weren't part of the rooms that did the mass respawning, however, these rooms are still doable and I was getting cucked because we were doing the dungeon with only 2-3 people.

[DonVelD]

Would the trick be to first lower the bar of entry by flattening the effort-to-advantage curve, but then add top tier drops in dangerous dungeons and such which could theoretically compensate for some part of that flattening?

Not really, I'd say DDDsDD999 is pretty much on point with everything he said. I'd love if the game didn't encourage high amount of autism: good example for that is this worlds early steel. Only around 2-3 villages bothered to spend LOTS of time to make steel out of the only iron ore there was (chalcopyrite which has laughably low chances for iron) rendering everyone's gear useless unless they also got steel themselves. Our village didn't bother and until we've got steel from better ore from lower levels fighting with anyone from other factions was not really worth it. I'd assume that if anyone even less competent ran into a player with gear like this they'd be laying on the floor soon enough lol.

Also as Snail has said drinking keybind & easily readable openings would be a good start on helping others get into PVP. It's kinda a running meme between me and my friends to name moves as sweeping, striking etc. instead of red blue green yellow. I hate how the default client doesn't make that clear and uses the icons.

[jackjoke]

On the flipside, the wrecking ball having these restrictions opens for the possibility to entirely remove its drying time which would make it even nicer for civic use. We didn't want to do that right now, in case there happen to be some sort of bug or oversight with the mechanic, but it was something we considered, and may yet consider for the future.

Do not remove the drying time! even for Civ use; one mad villager and suddenly you will have a hole in your wall.

[ChildhoodObesity]

Would the trick be to first lower the bar of entry by flattening the effort-to-advantage curve, but then add top tier drops in dangerous dungeons and such which could theoretically compensate for some part of that flattening?

I personally think this would be very cool, however, as others are suggesting it definitely shouldn't be a drop that's so OP that you can't compete in PVP without it. I don't think such drops need to necessarily affect PVP either. I think it'd be cool even if it was something along the lines of "when this item is imbued deal 10% more dmg to underground mobs" or something like that.