Prelude: World 16.2

[SnuggleSnail]

Killing bigboi faction poopsockers as as hermit is not much harder than killing them as a bigboi faction member. It's rly just an MMR diff + PVPers don't play this game anymore that it never happens

[LaserSaysPew]

imagine how different things would be if hermits could actually pose ANY threat to faction guys during PvP

people commonly compare this game to Rust when defending why PvP needs to be this brutal curbstomp experience for less geared/statted characters but in that game a naked guy with an eoka can actually have a chance to drop a fully geared guy with an AK47

whereas in this game even if you form a bear cape militia with your neighbors you are basically guaranteed to still get wiped by the guy that has been poopsocking from day 1, just because his numbers and industry is way ahead of yours

its a real shame they scrapped the "everyone has 100 health" constitution changes just because they didnt think through every edge case with bows and armor and didnt have enough time to fix it before world start. also I seem to recall all the PvPers flaming the fuck out of jorb and loftar for even proposing that system, I wonder why?

It's not just the "better equipment" really that gets hermits fucked. It's the combat system itself.

Take a game like Albion, for example. When I played it and went out harvesting stuff I got ganked a lot. And I got my ass handed to me being a noob that I am. But I saw what was happening. After the fact - I could think of things I could've tried to do differently to escape or fight back. I saw that one guy hooked me, the other predicted my dash, I could've turned invis(I don't remember tbh exact details, it's been some time) and went different direction. And as ganks kept happening again and again I started getting better and actually escaping, even started hunting gankers with my friends. Just because the combat was fun.

Can you imagine something like that in hnh? Fuck no.
Being a noob that I am, here's my usual experience when I'm ganked. I sail on a boat, snejjka appears. I get aggroed. I get to the shore and start running. The guy is running after me. Between trying to dodge objects, look at my stamina bar and drinking I see some "fuck you" tiny pictures appear, I hear sounds of *clank, bash* and some seconds later I'm KOed. I have no fucking clue what happened and why. What should I've done differently? No idea.
You can do that 10 times over and nothing will change, there is no visual feedback, no gameplay feedback, no experience to gain here. So I'm not getting better at all. And the system is so convoluted that walking out even 10 noobs vs 3 pvp bois is equal to 3 pvp bois vs 10 dummies running around like chicks doing virtually nothing of importance.

This is just not fucking fun to do.

[Halbertz]

It's the combat system itself.

Agree. In current system, gear is a secondary factor. If we drop rasvet's nemesis against 100 people of different skill level between total noobs and some regulars the outcome won't be a secret. In worst case our catboy will just run away, in best case he will KO some of them and then run away. This gives regulars 0 (zero) initiative to even try to fight back.

[magnet]

i am once again petitioning Jorbius and Lobart to add combat bots to Valhalla that chase and drink and try to opp knock cleave you, and can be configured for your skill level

imagine: enter the great hall and tell Odin what kind of battle your soul yearns for, step outside and find undead hearthlings to scrap with

and further hermit complaining would be like complaining about PKers in OSRS, if you suck then go get gud in LMS

[QueueSS]

"Some of you want to turn this game into just another generic farming simulator."

Not at all. There are many ways to die in this game without worrying that any other player you encounter will kill you for no other reason than you are there. Why bother creating a nice market when the PvP crowd will just attack and demolish it? Why create a high q public well just for some strong PvP player to destroy? For many players it seems the PvP folks' sole enjoyment of the game lies in ruining it for everyone else.

Thus the current experiment with concurrent worlds. Short, fast worlds that play to the strengths of the PvP crowd who, within 30 days are wearing metal armor and eating cheese and sausage, and within six months have depleted the available targets and are lobbying for a restart; and longer persistent worlds that cater to the rpg players who enjoy farming, fishing, exploring, crafting, etc., and may not even feel they're making progress til six months in.

It's also a pretty narrow view from PVPers that without PVP there's no sense of danger. Most excited I've been in terms of combat in H&H has been through going into dungeons I have not been prepared for. Being ganked by more developed PVP players is just basically a done fight unless there's an option to run. There's zero excitement in that and I doubt PVP players don't find much excitement in killing sprucecaps either.

I just wish devs could drop PVP completely and focus on a solid PVE experience that would satisfy way more players in general.

imo its extremely unlikely that youll die in most pve encounters unless youre just a new player, the threat of pvp is important in my opinion. There is always inherent risk in traveling long distances, you can't just bring all your most expensive items/equipment with you at all times, and you can weigh the value of extending a trip, etc. Also the person who was complaining about how there isn't a point in hosting a market if pvpers will just come ruin it honestly just doesn't understand the game fundamentally in my eyes

[stchristopher]

"Some of you want to turn this game into just another generic farming simulator."

Not at all. There are many ways to die in this game without worrying that any other player you encounter will kill you for no other reason than you are there. Why bother creating a nice market when the PvP crowd will just attack and demolish it? Why create a high q public well just for some strong PvP player to destroy? For many players it seems the PvP folks' sole enjoyment of the game lies in ruining it for everyone else.

Thus the current experiment with concurrent worlds. Short, fast worlds that play to the strengths of the PvP crowd who, within 30 days are wearing metal armor and eating cheese and sausage, and within six months have depleted the available targets and are lobbying for a restart; and longer persistent worlds that cater to the rpg players who enjoy farming, fishing, exploring, crafting, etc., and may not even feel they're making progress til six months in.

It's also a pretty narrow view from PVPers that without PVP there's no sense of danger. Most excited I've been in terms of combat in H&H has been through going into dungeons I have not been prepared for. Being ganked by more developed PVP players is just basically a done fight unless there's an option to run. There's zero excitement in that and I doubt PVP players don't find much excitement in killing sprucecaps either.

I just wish devs could drop PVP completely and focus on a solid PVE experience that would satisfy way more players in general.

imo its extremely unlikely that youll die in most pve encounters unless youre just a new player, the threat of pvp is important in my opinion. There is always inherent risk in traveling long distances, you can't just bring all your most expensive items/equipment with you at all times, and you can weigh the value of extending a trip, etc. Also the person who was complaining about how there isn't a point in hosting a market if pvpers will just come ruin it honestly just doesn't understand the game fundamentally in my eyes

I agree that PVE doesnt pose threat to dying, which is something I would encourage to add if PVP was removed. I agree that having the risk of dying makes the game better, but the way it works with H&H combat in PVP is just pure unfun.

People use alts to move stuff, you don't need to travel with main accounts so that defeats your point completely.

[animary]

"I doubt PVP players don't find much excitement in killing sprucecaps either."

On the contrary, I've seen many brag of "I love to hunt sprucecaps". A mindset I do not understand.

[animary]

"PVE doesnt pose threat to dying"

drowning
cave-ins
aggressive animals (particularly in dungeons)
alchemy mishaps
poisoning
exhaustion (some tasks your character will not pause to drink and will literally work themselves to death)
starvation

I have come within 13 points of dieing from adder bites; within 15 points of death from a cave-in (my favorite horse was killed); five walruses attacked my rowboat, I survived with 18 points. A friend was killed in our mine when eight green globs popped out of the wall and blocked his path, he killed five before they took him down. I've known three people killed by trolls, and one killed by something in a dungeon in a cave.

[QueueSS]

"PVE doesnt pose threat to dying"

drowning
cave-ins
aggressive animals (particularly in dungeons)
alchemy mishaps
poisoning
exhaustion (some tasks your character will not pause to drink and will literally work themselves to death)
starvation

I have come within 13 points of dieing from adder bites; within 15 points of death from a cave-in (my favorite horse was killed); five walruses attacked my rowboat, I survived with 18 points. A friend was killed in our mine when eight green globs popped out of the wall and blocked his path, he killed five before they took him down. I've known three people killed by trolls, and one killed by something in a dungeon in a cave.

im sorry bro but if you're dying from drowning, cave-ins, exhaustion, or starvation then i think pvpers are the last thing you need to be stressed about haha

[Grumpkin]

starvation

That never happens. Maybe Energy should deplete while you are offline. That would be fun.