Prelude: World 14

[The_Lich_King]

Do you want us to remove hearth traveling and fast traveling? Do you want us to remove everything that doesn't align 100% with the real world?

With all the regulars coming back for the new world, this reminds me, I haven't seen Lunarius yet.

I thought they quit way way back?

[TwentyThree]

Haven is still one of the most punishing games, more so than a hardcore lootershooter like Tarkov or Rust

Hard disagree.

I can see why, but with Rust you can always go to another server, or you keep your blueprints and can be back up and running in hours. Tarkov may have been a bad example, but you do still have your bank of items you can't lose unless you take it out. Haven can be way more brutal, with raiders despawning everything, you lose a butt-ton of stats when you die and reincarn, weeks to months of progress gone. The shorter wipe-cycles of the other games make it less punishing, with haven having a year of playtime you could be three months in and lose two and a half months of progress if you get targeted. While that can't stop you from playing and starting again, it still sucks more than other games, at least in my opinion. I always crawl back into Rust or Tarkov after getting thrashed like a bushel of wheat, but Haven hits different.

an optional (and very in depth) tutorial ingame. Something that explains how much safer a palisade is, how important it can be, when and how to use an airlock, visitor gates, anti-raid mechanics, how not to get murdered, stuff like that.

I do wish the devs would have a more involved tutorial and explain how the game works to newer people, but there are resources out there that do a great job explaining the basics and more advanced look at some of Havens mechanics.

Very much agree, its just the barrier to casual-ish entry is looking up external stuff. It doesnt seem that important to us as an established player with basic game knowledge, but to people that have no idea how to play that are interested, something ingame is critically important. Those first few hours are make-or-break, dying because you got too close to a boar, getting knocked out by ants because you tried to investigate this moving hill.. people shouldn't have to read guides, get a custom client right away, or watch videos for hours. These in-depth explanations are incredibly valuable, but people starting out their first week shouldn't have to look them up to not die.

The punishing nature of Haven is what makes it appealing to us, and should never, ever go away, but it needs to be established before you even get into it through an ingame tutorial that every action has consequences, from walking barefoot in the forest to making sure palisades are inside your claim.

[Anaxyx]

Very much agree, its just the barrier to casual-ish entry is looking up external stuff. It doesnt seem that important to us as an established player with basic game knowledge, but to people that have no idea how to play that are interested, something ingame is critically important. Those first few hours are make-or-break, dying because you got too close to a boar, getting knocked out by ants because you tried to investigate this moving hill.. people shouldn't have to read guides, get a custom client right away, or watch videos for hours. These in-depth explanations are incredibly valuable, but people starting out their first week shouldn't have to look them up to not die.

The punishing nature of Haven is what makes it appealing to us, and should never, ever go away, but it needs to be established before you even get into it through an ingame tutorial that every action has consequences, from walking barefoot in the forest to making sure palisades are inside your claim.

I both agree and disagree. Being of two minds sucks. I think that new players should definitely have some more tutorialization to get familiar with the game but, at the same time, I feel (yes feel cause I dunno for sure) like Jorbtar are to some extent trying to recreate life in that:

When you have never played Haven, have no idea what anything is, you start off with just the most basics taught to you then set loose, naked and dumb to stumble and bumble your way through learning life in the Hearthlands. For better or worse, the rough and brutal start is quite appropriate as life in the Hearthlands can be very rough and brutal, even if you know all the stuff to do.

Surely there must be some sort of middle ground that gives a brand new player a bit more information on mechanics yet still leaves them only partially informed. Learning through trial and error, while at times annoying and even costly, it also offers the greatest reward when you figure the thing out.

It would sure be nice to have a compiled list of all keyboard shortcuts for actions like digging a tile down all the way with a click or auto-leveling with a shift+click or whatever it was. Not knowing these things can hurt your gameplay experience pretty significantly. I know I for one have spent way too much time trying to get that one fucking tile of dirt just right but my dumbass character model wants to squat-pose to jump a cliff.

[pawnchito]

Hi. So the changes to realm don't really address the issue with realms. We like the buffs alot and want to keep them especially as they become more significant later in game. The issue is the lack of control by the local populace to affect their realm status. There have been several ways that have been suggested such as allowing non members to spread in some fashion.

[TwentyThree]

I both agree and disagree. Being of two minds sucks. I think that new players should definitely have some more tutorialization to get familiar with the game but, at the same time, I feel (yes feel cause I dunno for sure) like Jorbtar are to some extent trying to recreate life in that:

When you have never played Haven, have no idea what anything is, you start off with just the most basics taught to you then set loose, naked and dumb to stumble and bumble your way through learning life in the Hearthlands. For better or worse, the rough and brutal start is quite appropriate as life in the Hearthlands can be very rough and brutal, even if you know all the stuff to do.

Surely there must be some sort of middle ground that gives a brand new player a bit more information on mechanics yet still leaves them only partially informed. Learning through trial and error, while at times annoying and even costly, it also offers the greatest reward when you figure the thing out.

It would sure be nice to have a compiled list of all keyboard shortcuts for actions like digging a tile down all the way with a click or auto-leveling with a shift+click or whatever it was. Not knowing these things can hurt your gameplay experience pretty significantly. I know I for one have spent way too much time trying to get that one fucking tile of dirt just right but my dumbass character model wants to squat-pose to jump a cliff.

100%, regardless of what a tutorial consists of it should still be explained that you will probably die horribly and to the stupidest of mistakes, or lack of knowledge. It happened to everybody, and will happen to every new player. My first death was from drowning, second from not paying attention to how many leeches I collected my fifth time in a swamp, third from being too cocky and trying to take down a boar (and STILL having leeches on me, lesson NOT learned).
Somehow it needs to be explicitly conveyed that its fucking rough out there, you will die, progress will be lost, but that there's a huge adventure waiting just around the corner. I never lost a base because I had a master key on me, or because I placed a gate the wrong way, but that stuff happens all the time and coulda happened to me.

Even something so simple as to hint to looking up how to make a secure base, or to be wary of any and all animals and people.

[The_Lich_King]

I both agree and disagree. Being of two minds sucks. I think that new players should definitely have some more tutorialization to get familiar with the game but, at the same time, I feel (yes feel cause I dunno for sure) like Jorbtar are to some extent trying to recreate life in that:

When you have never played Haven, have no idea what anything is, you start off with just the most basics taught to you then set loose, naked and dumb to stumble and bumble your way through learning life in the Hearthlands. For better or worse, the rough and brutal start is quite appropriate as life in the Hearthlands can be very rough and brutal, even if you know all the stuff to do.

Surely there must be some sort of middle ground that gives a brand new player a bit more information on mechanics yet still leaves them only partially informed. Learning through trial and error, while at times annoying and even costly, it also offers the greatest reward when you figure the thing out.

It would sure be nice to have a compiled list of all keyboard shortcuts for actions like digging a tile down all the way with a click or auto-leveling with a shift+click or whatever it was. Not knowing these things can hurt your gameplay experience pretty significantly. I know I for one have spent way too much time trying to get that one fucking tile of dirt just right but my dumbass character model wants to squat-pose to jump a cliff.

100%, regardless of what a tutorial consists of it should still be explained that you will probably die horribly and to the stupidest of mistakes, or lack of knowledge. It happened to everybody, and will happen to every new player. My first death was from drowning, second from not paying attention to how many leeches I collected my fifth time in a swamp, third from being too cocky and trying to take down a boar (and STILL having leeches on me, lesson NOT learned).
Somehow it needs to be explicitly conveyed that its fucking rough out there, you will die, progress will be lost, but that there's a huge adventure waiting just around the corner. I never lost a base because I had a master key on me, or because I placed a gate the wrong way, but that stuff happens all the time and coulda happened to me.

Even something so simple as to hint to looking up how to make a secure base, or to be wary of any and all animals and people.

I remember Legacy Leeches... So much pain and suffering

The issue is there isn't any real way to convey to players how dangerous the world of hafen is. We can tell them they will likely die to a sharp learning curve but that won't adequately prepare anyone

[Sevenless]

The issue is there isn't any real way to convey to players how dangerous the world of hafen is. We can tell them they will likely die to a sharp learning curve but that won't adequately prepare anyone

I think it has to do with extremes. Many things you're completely safe with, some things will brutally end your existence. There's not a great intuitive leadup to this. Getting mauled by animals? Sucks sometimes you get a bad wound but you end up home. Some animals (moose now in that category iirc) are unexpectedly lethal. KOed on water? Basically guaranteed permadeath.

Hard to grasp that intuitively.

[VDZ]

I feel (yes feel cause I dunno for sure) like Jorbtar are to some extent trying to recreate life in that:

When you have never played Haven, have no idea what anything is, you start off with just the most basics taught to you then set loose, naked and dumb to stumble and bumble your way through learning life in the Hearthlands.

I don't know how you and Jorb were raised, but my parents put me through a tutorial that took fucking ages before I moved out (after which I still had to do an extensive specialization tutorial before I could really start).

it should still be explained that you will probably die horribly and to the stupidest of mistakes, or lack of knowledge. It happened to everybody, and will happen to every new player.

Hey, it's right there clear as day before you even enter the world:

Somehow it needs to be explicitly conveyed that its fucking rough out there, you will die, progress will be lost, but that there's a huge adventure waiting just around the corner.

On a more serious note, For The King's opening message does this well:

[TwentyThree]

it should still be explained that you will probably die horribly and to the stupidest of mistakes, or lack of knowledge. It happened to everybody, and will happen to every new player.

Hey, it's right there clear as day before you even enter the world:

kek

Somehow it needs to be explicitly conveyed that its fucking rough out there, you will die, progress will be lost, but that there's a huge adventure waiting just around the corner.

On a more serious note, For The King's opening message does this well:

I remember that game, it actually did straight up feel like you had to be super careful.

[Ferinex]

The Eye of Sauron thing is fucking genius. Cheers!