Pre-Announcement: Siege Changes

[Burinn]

In the world where hermits fucked up, there is a risk that only 2-5 factions will play it, and devs will become their personal dream realizators. Is that what you want, Jorb?

Yes, that is what I want.

Cut your hyperbole and stop trying to make me out to be some sort of bad guy here. I've tried to engage in a meaningful conversation with you, so kindly return the favor. kk, thanks.

I for one think you're a very nice guy for taking the time to answer all of these questions.

A real picture of Jorb after I gave him a trophy for putting up with us peasants

[Enjoyment]

How the siege system should look like in my opinion:

You place a ram which is destructible and dries in 8 hours, defenders can try destroying it within these 8 hours but of course attackers can also protect it for 8 hours, then after it dries it becomes indestructible and lawspeaker of the defending village has to choose a time within the following 24h when the attackers will be able to move the ram (it wouldnt get damage from moving on the village claim so 2-3-4 layers of walls won't work) and destroy walls, if defenders don't want to set the time they have to pay a tribute and what kind of tribute that is Im not sure yet, maybe some % of total LP of all characters added to the village that has to be paid with curiosities.. Or idk, thats still to discuss but I think it would be way better. If defenders want to fight & defend their village - they can set a time in which they gather people, attackers gather people - they fight for the raid. If defenders are peacefull hermits and don't want risk fighting - they can pay the tribute - the less people play in the defending village, the less total LP, the less curios they have to pay.

Seems very relevant... Still needs some discussin on tribute system, but in general, very simple and effective...

[Ysh]

How the siege system should look like in my opinion:

You place a ram which is destructible and dries in 8 hours, defenders can try destroying it within these 8 hours but of course attackers can also protect it for 8 hours, then after it dries it becomes indestructible and lawspeaker of the defending village has to choose a time within the following 24h when the attackers will be able to move the ram (it wouldnt get damage from moving on the village claim so 2-3-4 layers of walls won't work) and destroy walls, if defenders don't want to set the time they have to pay a tribute and what kind of tribute that is Im not sure yet, maybe some % of total LP of all characters added to the village that has to be paid with curiosities.. Or idk, thats still to discuss but I think it would be way better. If defenders want to fight & defend their village - they can set a time in which they gather people, attackers gather people - they fight for the raid. If defenders are peacefull hermits and don't want risk fighting - they can pay the tribute - the less people play in the defending village, the less total LP, the less curios they have to pay.

Seems very relevant... Still needs some discussin on tribute system, but in general, very simple and effective...

If this street is taken, I'd like to throw this car into the road again and/or still: viewtopic.php?f=48&t=48332&p=631397#p631397

Seems easy to include some tributes in that system.

[jorb]

How about...

I made some notes of those things. Will consider.

As for my defeatism? The result is I'm playing Path of Exile and I'm having fun (been doing it for years too). As for you dunno you are fixated on your stupid siege system when it's obvious to anyone sane there is no chance in hell to make such a system balanced but hey keep trying I'm sure it will work out ok. You want drama and you think the problem is the lack of siege when in fact it's there are no new people to provide it. You think siege will solve everything when the more likely result is making a few more people quit. But sure go ahead. Meanwhile my suggestion is considered too out there and probably more important too much damn work. Bleah. Give lady goo her siege once they remove odditown and ainran I'm curios how much drama you will have jorb. Farmville ftw.

Good for you! I'm glad you have a game you like.

I do not perceive myself as being particularly fixated on the siege system -- we've been working on a lot of other things -- but I do imagine that the siege system is important. I notice that older worlds tend to get dull, as people entrench behind bases that can never be attacked, and that this leads to burnout and people quitting. I'd like to try to avoid that if I can, and I think politics could be a great way to keep the world fun. Politics implies points of conflict, so how do I create those? Your suggestion as best as I can gather it seems to be "Don't. Go play Path of Exile instead.", and I have to admit that that leaves me cold.

What kind of endgame do you imagine, since PvP can never be a thing?

[Astarisk]

My only fear about siege systems is the siege itself being done by proxy. I feel like their should be risks involved when sieging itself, and not just a resource sink. As it stands most everything involved in a siege will probably be done by alts, and the actions themselves done in a fast manner leaving no time for the defenders to react, aside from maybe the moment that the walls are breached if they are around for that. Sieging itself should have risks involved with it off the back, every step should have to be done with characters that are worthwhile. But I'm sure if every stage of it was a giant risk, no one would bother with it anyways. Might need to add more to the game to give a reason to risk sieging for.

[LadyGoo]

This is FOR NOW, And even this wasn't accepted cause of "way too long". And if things goes in that way - it will become 6h and than 3 or even 1h. And that for destroying anothers' Big Scary Faction Vclaim. And if needed efforts would scale for small villages and hermitages - than it could became "too cheap for not doing it". Im thinking about future, you know. Want to know the way the game I spend my time in goes. Does it seems strange to you?

Gosh, are you sane or a noob? I am asking this because what the devs done since W8 is making raiding as hard as possible. Let me give you the list:
1. Visitor buff. If you'd be able to get inside of a village, you cannot use the open gates. Therefore, you have to bash other sections of the village somehow. Or get knocked down by evict and killed by the owner of the claim.
2. Removed palibashing (like it has existed for worlds and people have accepted it). Any palisade with a personal claim is a vault itself, that you have to siege for ages
3. Red hands and nidbanes! Wooow.
4. Made the siege dependent on natural resources, like brimstone, which decays

And so on. I am not sure how you are evaluating everything, but so far the development path is right the opposite of what you are afraid of.

[burgingham]

I do not perceive myself as being particularly fixated on the siege system -- we've been working on a lot of other things -- but I do imagine that the siege system is important. I notice that older worlds tend to get dull, as people entrench behind bases that can never be attacked, and that this leads to burnout and people quitting. I'd like to try to avoid that if I can, and I think politics could be a great way to keep the world fun. Politics implies points of conflict, so how do I create those? Your suggestion as best as I can gather it seems to be "Don't. Go play Path of Exile instead.", and I have to admit that that leaves me cold.

What kind of endgame do you imagine, since PvP can never be a thing?

The problem with PvP being the endgame is that you are either stuck with those leaving who cannot PvP because the rules are too strict or you have those leaving who just got PvP'ed because the rules weren't strict enough.*

Stat caps were a first step to make people at least consider to bounce back, but losing a developed base is still much worse than that and with the current status of the game people will rather leave than to build up again and get some revenge. You adressed some ways of making destruction less all or nothing based and we have suggested other options in the past too. So you might want to start working on that.

_________

*btw from a monetary perspective I am pretty sure the second crowd is a lot bigger than the first one.

[Enjoyment]

What kind of endgame do you imagine, since PvP can never be a thing?

Why are you don't answer on my suggestion of cirlce-based world? I think it can fit anyone - those who want PvP - live int center - and those who doesn't - lives on the edges. It definately should have some resources in center to fight for, but it can easily be done as I can imagine (maybe it is not, than please be so kind to tell us it)

[burgingham]

I actually made a similar suggestion in the past. The good resources are all in the center of the world so those who really care go and fight over them. Those who just want to hermit and larp can move away then and don't participate in the quality grind.

[Ysh]

What kind of endgame do you imagine, since PvP can never be a thing?

Why are you don't answer on my suggestion of cirlce-based world? I think it can fit anyone - those who want PvP - live int center - and those who doesn't - lives on the edges. It definately should have some resources in center to fight for, but it can easily be done as I can imagine (maybe it is not, than please be so kind to tell us it)

I'm perhaps not entirely adverse to that line of thinking, Enjoyment, but let's also not forget that BSFs have very strong incentives to attack people far weaker than themselves. Full spectrum dominance ensures victory. Attacking other BSFs can cause real problems, which humans tend to shy away from.