Game Development: Stalking Garden

[Kirche]

I don't mind nerfing the garden pots, I've been thinking that it devalued foraging for a long time, but you need to buff the foragables out in the wild to compensate for this change, especially bluebells which you nerfed when you made pottable but (having seen no mention of it in the patch I'm assuming) you have not buffed back to it's original values now that it is no longer the case

[loleznub]

Chiming Bluebell (A FLOWER) is not plantable??
Clover (A FLOWER) is not plantable??
Lady's Mantle (A FLOWER) is plantable????

Lady's Mantle is some of the most useless and worthless item in the game. Its only use is to study, and is pretty fucking bad at that. Making this the replacement for chiming bluebells is just fucking retarded. Both are flowers, but one is significantly worse and non-viable where as the alternative is something all players can use throughout the game. Credo's are supposed to reward players for doing the tasks, and this is completely backwards. If Lady's mantle can be plantable, then so should a fucking bluebell. Punishing players for playing the game because you wanted to bring foraging back? Really? As the game goes on, players shouldn't need to waste time foraging for low quality items. If I've invested months of time into proper infrastructure, doing credo's for the point of not needing to wander aimlessly around hoping to get lucky with RNG (FORAGING) then I shouldn't need to.

Stalagoom (A MUSHROOM) is not plantable??
Chantrelles (A MUSHROOM) is not plantable??
Troll Mushroom (A MUSHROOM) is plantable???

Seriously, this is the exact opposite shit than what I mentioned above... Why can the best mushroom be planted, but yet the more useless ones cannot be? I absolutely agree that these should be behind the credo wall before they become plantable, but removing the other mushrooms? It's the concept and lack of standardization here that is worrisome. And that concept is what's been leading to all of these piss-poor "developments" in the past 5 months. It seems to be more of a "Oh god we have to do something because the client rewrite (which is a waste of time, let's be honest, because it's not going to make any significant changes if the quality is going to be the same as these updates) is taking too long. Let's just change some random shit and call it good real quick." than a thought out development path. It's very noticeable that you guys are burnt out on developing this game, which is fine, but sometimes making no changes is better than making half-assed changes for the sake of calling it an update.


Please explain the reasoning behind this and don't give "oh we wanted to make changes in one go, if you don't like it you're just clearly invested into what you've become accustomed to" bullshit response.

If the entire purpose is to "Make Foraging Great Again" then perhaps you need to look at what foraging really is. I understand that this is a hard concept to grasp, but considering you're both sprucecaps, I would have thought you both would have understood that foraging is primarily an early-game thing that only new players that havent even gotten their first credo do. Take a look at how society functions, we evolved from hunter-gatherers to farming LONG before we found even iron, let alone steel. There's a reason for this because it's easier, and less time consuming, to plant and cultivate things you need (Farming, Gardening) than it is to run around looking for them (Foraging). Foraging is a very, very time consuming process and getting past this part of the game is one of the best rewards because now I can instead focus on things I want to do, instead of wasting time in an already grindy/time wasting game.

Make changes to make foraging more fun for the early game, instead of saying the solution is go waste more of your time looking in the wilderness. What those changes can be? No idea, I hate foraging because it wastes so much time. Imagine a game where the devs constantly say "The reason we don't play our own game is because it takes too much time" and then constantly releases updates that remove some of the nicer things that cut down on time wasting, and replacing them with significantly more time wasting things - Oh shit wait, that's this game.. Damn..

There's a very real difference between "realism" (or the lack thereof) and "fun", and this is certainly in the wrong direction of changes. If you're really bent on defending this, then you need to double down and completely remove gardening (the credo and the pots), farming (Including planting/ harvesting crops and animal husbandry) and truly make Foraging great again because that way the only way you get resources. This also even comes with the added benefit of fixing hunger/satiations because all players are stuck with shit items to eat! Doesn't that just sound amazing?! Can't wait to see this in the next update.

It's these types of updates that kill games. Don't let your game you've worked hard on over the years just get wasted. Although I'm not entirely sure this isn't the objective of the majority of the updates this world either... I suggest getting a REAL development roadmap and taking player feedback while working towards your desired goals.

[jordancoles]

I seriously thought Jorb has a HUGE freaking list of SUGGESTED, changes and improvements for H&H, and yet it seems we are consistantly getting these, "I wanna force people to roam the country and fight" updates. Is this what people really want?

This as well.

A huge notepad document of decent ideas and fixes to choose from and yet we get nerfs to garden pots and the credo to the point where it is just a stepping stone towards scholar without adding any natural forageable quality growth.

Stuff like this is what makes me really worry about seasons and how punishing they will be.

Just so you're aware in the future: in the winter when crops go dormant, animals still need to eat somehow and "storing up for the winter" means killing off hundreds of animals and crossing your fingers that you'll have enough reserves right now

[loleznub]

I seriously thought Jorb has a HUGE freaking list of SUGGESTED, changes and improvements for H&H, and yet it seems we are consistantly getting these, "I wanna force people to roam the country and fight" updates. Is this what people really want?

This as well.

A huge notepad document of decent ideas and fixes to choose from and yet we get nerfs to garden pots and the credo to the point where it is just a stepping stone towards scholar without adding any natural forageable quality growth.

Stuff like this is what makes me really worry about seasons and how punishing they will be.

Just so you're aware in the future: in the winter when crops go dormant, animals still need to eat somehow and "storing up for the winter" means killing off hundreds of animals and crossing your fingers that you'll have enough reserves right now

This is because of the burnout I was saying. It's easier to develop the game for things you want, instead of what others want, because it's easier to find the motivation for things you want to do. That's what it seriously seems like.

[WESKERBOY]

What! I was about to buy another 6 great pots for forageables!!! U destroyed gardening u.u hope u can reverte IT we need more potables not less u.u


A Real Step forward foraging would be Adding New no potable forages please hear su jorb.

[tyrtix]

snip

Still waiting somehow for a house fireplace since maybe world 5 or 6 at best...
there's a list of infinite small fixes and polishing that the game could use and will make everything more clean and funny (especially for the new players coming into the game...), and needs just a fraction of time from the devs, for example easier bashing of one's deed buildings/walls, or the way the latest words punished so badly noobs in order to make things for the top tier players harder (see the wax updates, now a noob/hermit is better to place himself near a cave because the resources to make even a single minehole will take months to gather...or the mounds that can be bashed by animals, nearly killing you in the process).

Bah, i like and sometimes love the changes put into the game, but have an hard time to understand why jorbtar loose resources in running behind the white rabbit of "everything balanced" when there's so much to do otherwise that will help the game.

[sabinati]

Blueberries, Chantrelles, Stinging Nettle, Clover, Cavebulb, Chiming Bluebell, Bloodstern, Stalagoom can no longer be grown in Garden pots. Gardener now allows you to plant Lady's Mantle, Yarrow, and Troll Mushrooms. Foraging is now hopefully a bit more viable. Looking to make it more so.

Blueberries, Chantrelles, Stinging Nettle, Clover, Stalagoom: nobody should care about those because the things you can make from them are low-mid tier at best. I probably still won't pick them up when foraging and I personally wouldn't be buying any. Especially since they won't be good quality.

Cavebulb, Chiming Bluebell, and Bloodstern are a kick in the dick since those are the reason people completed gardener credo.

Lady's Mantle is crap, even at q90 they're shit tier. Yarrow is hard to get excited for but ok. Troll mushroom depends on you getting the right type of troll.

To make foraging more viable it needs more stuff that is actually good. Maybe buff some foraged items or increase the spawn rates of them. But then people will just bot them so ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[Fierce_Deity]

Nice trees, they look good. I think the gardening pot change is good, but for some things like bluebells it may be good to buff them a bit. I think they were previously nerfed when they were given the ability to be grown.

[Forik]

[*] (...) , Clover, (...)

I'm no gardener, ingame or IRL, but I planted clovers once to see if they'd grow, it was a small four leaf clover I uprooted, and it grew, and even sprouted a four leafed clover of its own after the original leaf had died (it even flowered during spring). I did this with no knowledge of plants, gardening, or garden pots, with dirt from my yard and some spare pot I found lying around. They lived for two years, potted and indoors.

I can't make the case for bringing back any of the other plants, but clovers grow like weeds, and on whatever soil you plant them in, jorb.

pic related

[algeralith]

looking forward to " oh hey i can buy the q270 anvil for 500 foraged bluebells now"

You can only dream. The only way you'll be buying stuff is with tokens. Or you know, actual *RMT*.
That needs to be squashed immediately if you expect any sort of trade. But good luck with that, that'd require in-game moderation.
Or you know, just read the subtle context of trade threads on the forum.