Prelude: World 15

[SErafin]

Will characters be deleted/reset? (This is my first map reset)

[Okocim]

adding arbitrary conflict and things to fight over does not make people fight more in fact it does the opposite we've seen this countless times (thingwalls/meteor). I've walked up to peoples gates early world countless times and watched them continue to spitroast their food while I sit there. nobody is going to come out and fight me knowing I have a snek not too far away. same goes for the opposite why would anyone come fight me at my gate knowing I can just run in and out of a safepali.

you know how you can actually create conflict? by making it so I can randomly run in to them, something that never fucking happens because the map is so abnormally large. how insanely fun it would be if every time I walked around outside I had a very high chance of running in to other players that are willing to fight me, just random fighters doing chores hunting w/e and it turning in to a fight. you don't even need to make a smaller world just enticing the mouth breathing pvprs to all live in a location due to quality or idfk the lava mountain? would have the same effect.

Early meteors usually make people fight as far as I know, the thing is most people don't care about meteor/thingwalls. How can it generate a conflict when nobody cares?
Sure, You can make map smaller, but once everyone is established and people won't have to go out anymore, chances of running into someone will still be small.
If you want conflict you need people to leave their villages and/or have something meaningful to fight over.

[Flameturtle]

Will characters be deleted/reset? (This is my first map reset)

Yup, everything goes, fresh start completely for everyone.

[vatas]

Will characters be deleted/reset? (This is my first map reset)

Only thing that stays are store items bound to your account (Game Time Tokens should be able to be stashed into a Hearth Fire now that reset has been announced, if you've taken any of those out or received from other players and not spent.)

Also any custom sketches you've uploaded will remain (these used to be subject to wipes as well, lul.)

[SnuggleSnail]

It's because haven is not a PvP game, there is no real conflict generation, nothing to fight over.

Sure it does! I want to kill you and take your shit. You want to not be dead, to keep your shit, and maybe get revenge for me being a dickhead.

I've played /a lot/ of PVP focused games and no objective has ever been more interesting/appealing than trying to out ratfuck a haven adversary who's trying to ratfuck me back, or even just survive back when I was new.

All the game needs for conflict is for people to interact with each other. No more, no less. Meaty ores work well not because anybody gives a shit about the objective, but because it's a place and a time. It was WORSE at generating fights when the reward for winning overly powerful.

I'm so fucking jealous of AD. For the past 3 worlds they've lucked into being within like 30 minimaps of another main group. GOD I WISH THAT WERE ME instead of this BULLSHIT: viewtopic.php?f=48&t=74633

[Okocim]

It's because haven is not a PvP game, there is no real conflict generation, nothing to fight over.

Sure it does! I want to kill you and take your shit. You want to not be dead, to keep your shit, and maybe get revenge for me being a dickhead.
f=48&t=74633

Why do you want to kill me? just because? it doesn't go for everyone.
Oh you want to take my spruce cap, for sure it will provide You with such value.
I don't wonna die so I just run away and You still complain about not having anyone to fight.
In the end I'll just be less eager to exit my village and you can watch me from outside my palisade and complain on forums.

[MightySheep]

bro u had like 10 people on playing at every single gank and fight that i saw, there are maybe 20/30 active fighters every world u had 1/3rd of them playing actively. them teaming up was some pussy shit but dont act like having 10 active fighters is a small deal. your exact words to this was " we cant just tell some of our guys to not play and not come out" which is fair but then u got mad when they all did the same thing to you.

tbh i dont give a fuck about bots, i wont be playing long enough to where ill get out statted by anyone. i cant wait to go slaughter every hermit in sight gank a bunch of faction farmers and never get any repercussions for doing so because this fucking game is so unbelievably carebear that it basically wont matter.

and to the retards saying "If YoU wAnT a FigHt Go tO tHeIr GaTe" nobody wants to fight under these gay conditions. im not going to spend 30 minutes traveling wait 15 minutes for them to get their group ready so i can watch them run in to a safepali or us to a snek at the slightest chance of a loss. i want hood rat shit, i want ganks not this shitty gameplay loop.

Yeah we had 10 fighters, thats what I said. That's not some huge number is it? Thats not the "100 man faction" snail talks about. We were the BIGGEST group with 10 people. So arcanum, ad, polska, they were all smaller than 10. Which is my whole point. This meme talk of giant factions and prolific botting is boring.

Also I cant remember if youre in snails group or not but no1 buys the excuses about travel time. We had nonstop PvP for most of this world all over the place, if you werent getting any pvp ever think maybe its your own fault? Polska was south continent too. You knew for sure that if you turned up at our walls thered be no "running inside" and with a group that is so easily baitable did u set 1 bait? No lol. Not even 1 attempt to fight. Anywhere, ever. Not even at meteor. AD and polska were trying to fight us nonstop and we were going to other people and fighting them nonstop, like the multiple videos we have of big fights at arcanums walls or ADs walls, resulting in many KOs every time. I didn't even upload most of the fights because a lot of them were anticlimactic but it was literally every day almost.

I honestly think the reason groups like whatever bay and others think have this insane defeatist mentality to the point I can walk solo into the middle of their village while 6+ dudes cower behind wall and KO someone is because of the disinformation constantly being spread painting a picture of insurmountable odds. Whereas the reality is now combat stats are equalized, attributes are equalized, u cant spiral industry, and the biggest W14 group was 10 people. There's basically not a single barrier to PvP anymore. Any group with 5 people is already 1 of the biggest factions. Congratz. Only thing stopping group like whatever bay from being the dominant faction is their own lack of balls, they probably read too many snail posts and think tree quests is the reason they can't compete.

[Okocim]

I honestly think the reason groups like whatever bay and others think have this insane defeatist mentality to the point I can walk solo into the middle of their village while 6+ dudes cower behind wall and KO someone is because of the disinformation constantly being spread painting a picture of insurmountable odds. Whereas the reality is now combat stats are equalized, attributes are equalized, u cant spiral industry, and the biggest W14 group was 10 people. There's basically not a single barrier to PvP anymore. Any group with 5 people is already 1 of the biggest factions. Congratz. Only thing stopping group like whatever bay from being the dominant faction is their own lack of balls, they probably read too many snail posts and think tree quests is the reason they can't compete.

It might seem so from the outside, but keep in mind that of those 6+ dudes only 3 have equipment and moves unlocked, only 2 have rage and those are not necessarily the same guys, on top of that only one of them is willing to join voice.
If you really think that you'd lose a 1vs1 against a random noob, I think that you are the one with defeatist mentality.

[SnuggleSnail]

I'm never rly sure if ur intentionally misconstruing things as a prank, or if u're just genuinely like 17IQ. Probably a little of both? What I was talking about has nothing to do with fighting.

• Trollex's village had >100 people in their discord. Doubtful they all played, but AD is VERY BIG when you include non-fighters.
• Trollex is making his own client, and I know AD has at least 4(?) programmers + Alg/Rawrz are prolly helping him a bit + there's certain more idk of
• Trollex definitely uses bots, because he's used mine (on a more subjective note he's also lowkey insane about pretending they don't save much time, I think because he's just so used to them)
• Trollex works from home, and can play while working usually
• Trollex, when I played with him, was usually online >14 hours a day and on call to be online for more
• Trollex's girlfriend slaves for him at a similar of not high # of hours/day with the same advantages

With that in mind when Trollex complains on the forum that he's running out of things to do, and therefore industry that is a necessity for everybody who wants to be 'relevant', should be grindier Jorbtar should take it with a mountain of salt.

More people play the game for (directly, at least) non-PVP reasons than PVP reasons, and having good industry as a reasonable goal motivates a lot of people. Good industry should be a somewhat difficult but achievable goal for any village irrespective of PVP, not just for top autists. (which is also why infinitely grinding quality with quests is also bad in a long world)(also I agree with a lot of Trollex's points on industry, just not about where the needle should be because what is required to keep him busy is absurd)

[vatas]

With that in mind when Trollex complains on the forum that he's running out of things to do, and therefore industry that is a necessity for everybody who wants to be 'relevant', should be grindier Jorbtar should take it with a mountain of salt.

Hide for big image, trust me it's relevant despite the closing statement (initially) not aging well at all.