Pre-Announcement: Siege Changes

[MightySheep]

Social interaction used to be a thing because big villages protected the smaller guy, now they don't. I only said it about a million times.

Not every village is odditown. Our village have all hermits within local area as friends, was much more beneficial than attacking them for no reason. It is useful to have a collection of people always keeping lookout and providing information and we even recruited some of nearby hermits, which is obviously much safer than forum recruiting. The 'attacking everyone' playstyle draws too much heat, it rarely ends well for anybody.

I think you are getting the wrong impression because people arent doing that stupid thing they used to do in old worlds which is to declare "safe zones" or try to claim a section of the map "belongs" to your faction. That always has the opposite effect as intended, it's just stupid.

Like, even after the palibashing was removed, people are being overly carebear. Omg, if anyone can raid us, they will do it! NO. No-one will waste materials on your scrubby hermitage, and rather try to negotiate. Any palisade with a pclaim is a hearthvault already, provided the effort for collecting the brimstones and etc. Who, in right mind, would spend so many resources on raiding noobs?
Jesus, if you give farmers an arm, they'll bite it off and ask for the manager, because it doesn't taste right.

First post in like 6 pages that speaks any sense.

Noobs don't even need to care about this update, it wont change anything at all for you.

[Kaios]

Not every village is odditown. Our village have all hermits within local area as friends, was much more beneficial than attacking them for no reason. It is useful to have a collection of people always keeping lookout and providing information and we even recruited some of nearby hermits, which is obviously much safer than forum recruiting. The attacking everyone playstyle draws too much heat, it rarely ends well for anybody.

From my perspective that's exactly what the Kingdoms system entailed except actually creating in-game functions/tools to manage such an alliance which is what a lot of hermits don't seem to realize I think. If such a system were to be implemented that is indeed what you could do between your neighbours.

[pedorlee]

Not every village is odditown. Our village have all hermits within local area as friends, was much more beneficial than attacking them for no reason. It is useful to have a collection of people always keeping lookout and providing information and we even recruited some of nearby hermits, which is obviously much safer than forum recruiting. The attacking everyone playstyle draws too much heat, it rarely ends well for anybody.

From my perspective that's exactly what the Kingdoms system entailed except actually creating in-game functions/tools to manage such an alliance which is what a lot of hermits don't seem to realize I think. If such a system were to be implemented that is indeed what you could do between your neighbours.

If a system like this is implemented I bet it will happen the same as in Salem with the MM tribe. You want to build a minehole? Wait because the lords will be asking for wax or death. And this will happen with every coincibable worth item you can imagine.

[thesourceofsadness]

Siege mechanics should be straight, clear, simple and easy to understand.

Attackers "declare war" by building some kind of "siege totem" near the enemy's village claim and it starts the countdown, after which village claim becomes vulnerable and siege may begin. "Siege totem" is invulnerable on start, but can be destroyed after some time passed, so attackers should defend it and defenders should try to destroy it.

When time is up - siege begins, and it's all up to fighters, defensive structures, walls, rams, catapults and all other tools of slaughtering: people are free to kill and destroy. Good ol' violence.

No need for any mystical shields, no need to wait except the initial period, no need for rare resources.

It's mostly just like it was in Legacy Haven and Salem: force, numbers, defences and weapons should decide who will win and who will lose. It's simple, it's logical, it's real-life approved.

[jorb]

No need for any mystical shields, no need to wait except the initial period, no need for rare resources.

Ugh. No need for mystical shields, just a need for a mystical claim that arbitrarily defines an area effect.

[thesourceofsadness]

Ugh. No need for mystical shields, just a need for a mystical claim that arbitrarily defines an area effect.

It worked pretty fine in Salem. Not brilliant, but fine. At least, there was no shitload of whinings 'bout "broken siege system".

Only village may declare war against another village, p-claims can be attacked without any "siege totems", so it incourage people to make villages together... Damn, i don't need to explain it here, 'cause it was YOU, who made it.

[Archiplex]

Ugh. No need for mystical shields, just a need for a mystical claim that arbitrarily defines an area effect.

It worked pretty fine in Salem. Not brilliant, but fine. At least, there was no shitload of whinings 'bout "broken siege system".

Only village may declare war against another village, p-claims can be attacked without any "siege totems", so it incourage people to make villages together... Damn, i don't need to explain it here, 'cause it was YOU, who made it.

I at least think that people should have to defend their pclaims, rather than just stick it everywhere (quality nodes and resources)- we should be able to do something such like draining the authority of a pclaim/vclaim and gaining LP off of it (such as, 50% drain of authority from a pclaim -> LP gain, and 25% from a village claim -> 50% of that into LP) or simply being able to destroy it straight up

Although, if we are able to drain p-claims, that should definitely have a large consequence for the village (and thus the totem should be the most defended part of a structure)- since authority is more or less a joke of a mechanic as far as i can see

Perhaps, if a totem is drained, all walls lose a chunk of their soak (enough to make palisades bashable, but not brick walls)- and crime is no longer prevented/visitor buff cannot be gained?

[RedKGB]

As a hermit and a die hard non combatant. This does nothing for me.

I do how ever dont want a carebear server. I want the threat of death of loging in and seeing my little place in flames. I want the thrill of seeing a white dot and running like hell.

I only wish I had a defense tower, that has a range of 80 tiles and you cant build one closer than 500 tiles to the next tower.

[thesourceofsadness]

I only wish I had a defense tower, that has a range of 80 tiles and you cant build one closer than 500 tiles to the next tower.

Catapults on towers would be nice. And archers on the castle stone walls. (I totally like the idea of "object controlled objects" as it was here: http://www.havenandhearth.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=39&t=47599)

And wolves. And dragons. Please. Yes, i'm serious.

[Delamore]

Outside of the exact mechanics of how sieges happen and what effects they have, seriously consider moving them to only be possible during the weekend so that both sides have a proper chance at being part of it.

In almost all games that allow you to raid structures of another village, waiting till the least of their members are online is a huge part of it just because that's the easiest way to go about it. It's very obvious in the wurm example sheep gave multiple pages back where raids happen at "2 am" and last all night, a situation that's horrible for the defenders and not very fun for the attackers.
While 2 AM is going to be a different time all over the player base, the weekend is always the weekend. If people knew that the action happens on weekends I think raids with both defenders and attackers being active could be a real thing, and all your changes wouldn't have to be tempered with the fact that someone can roll up during a period of downtime in player activity to raid with the least resistance.

If I knew both me and my allies risk being raided over the weekends, that would be a period where you would have your fighters mobilized and your defenses ready instead of of a raid on my allies starting at 7 AM on a Tuesday morning where I ask my town if anyone can go help and the answer is silence or "I have work/school" because it's a damn tuesday morning.(Real situation that actually happened this world, raid was due to a mistake in their planning but the enemies were able to haul out cupboards and loot uncontested for 2 hours because no one could possibly defend)

It's just a fact of MMOs that the stuff requiring lots of players to be active for it to function properly should happen during the periods where the most players are active.
I also think that it would go a long way to making big factions consider their targets more carefully as they only get to siege over the weekend and unless they're a massive group covering multiple timezones with full fighter teams that's most likely only 1-3 targets that they can attack and it's also during the period they would need to think about self defense and ally defense.

I think this would allow you to design and test siege systems that assume that both the attacker and defender have as close to full fighting force as reasonably possible (Obviously nothing is perfect when people different timezones play the same game)