Divine Intervention: The Case of Core vs ST & CotTK

[VDZ]

So the alternative would have been, and was indeed, fucking their shit up. It was the only choice they had.

Another alternative was to simply do nothing and only fix the bug, which was the way they used to handle this kind of thing.

I'm not saying I disagree with Jorb and Loftar's decision - in fact, I wholeheartedly support it. (Though I still would like some clarification on where they draw the line.) But I feel it's unreasonable to call the griefers dumb and say they should've seen this coming when the historical precedent has them getting away with the abuse.

given that in the past, SEVERAL times, places have been nuked from wall-jumping

When has this happened? I don't know of even one instance of this happening, and if there are any I doubt there are many. Places have been nuked for being impenetrable vaults, but I've never heard of a place being nuked for walljump-raiding another village.

[Sevenless]

I believe there was a bug abuse nuke or two in previous worlds, I don't think they were about walljumps because frankly those bugs were really common. Amusingly, this isn't the first time APX has been on the receiving end of divine intervention.

[Koru]

Another alternative was to simply do nothing and only fix the bug, which was the way they used to handle this kind of thing.

Used to are key words. I, for example, quit game cus of that and was a bit afraid to get back to see bug-abuse-fest again. Seeing devs not tolerating such dick moves is more important for me than anything else. I proudly support them with my few bucks now not cus they develop new haven. I support them cus I see community matters to them.

[Tonkyhonk]

well, it appears that your punishment wasnt harsh enough for them to stop this, devs. better consider a real hardcore punishment for the next one that they claim they are planing to do.

timestamp: utc+9

20:20 Tonky > did you crash the server?
20:20 Headshot > What are you doing here tonkey? you should be at forum lick devs asses. Dont waste time, maybe they revive your char
20:20 Tonky > i dont have to get my char revived, headshot?
20:20 Tonky > what are you talking about?
20:21 insanechef > do bears attack with red?
20:21 Headshot > Is that you Tokneyhonk on forums?
20:21 Tonky > yes, just not tokney, its tonky
20:22 Tonky > im not your victim, unfortunately
20:23 Headshot > Ah, right. Sorry then :3
20:23 Tonky > np
20:23 Headshot > think that was you who cry a lot
20:24 Tonky > ha ha, want me to cry a river over you?
20:24 insanechef > video gamez srs business
20:24 Headshot > Well, im pretty nervous because of crash and time wasting. Hope we rebuild soon, but crashes.
20:24 Tonky > so it wasnt you who crashed it this time around?
20:24 t4nk > are you going to terraform your old base?
20:24 Headshot > Idk lol, maybe.
20:24 Tonky > maybe?
20:25 Headshot > We are still test some mechanics.
20:25 Tonky > watch out what you say :p
20:25 Headshot > Anyway nothing to nuke for now. Idk about alts
20:25 Headshot > idc*
20:25 Tonky > yeah sure
20:26 Tonky > i was half expecting you meant a good joke when you said "my farmer"
20:27 Headshot > Well. Im really enjoy farming\cooking and have pretty nice peacefull char. Hes gone too, and thats sad.
20:27 Tonky > too bad
20:27 Tonky > so mrHally wasnt Halloween?
20:28 Tonky > i kinda thought he was playing with you this world
20:28 Headshot > JL decide. Nothing to do with that.
20:30 Tonky > you live with erebes now? or are they completely innocent?
20:31 Headshot > Im still think this is a little bit overreaction with village nuke especially we report bug clearly. Del only raider characters will be enough. But looks like devs want to do public whipping.
20:31 Tonky > its not only the victims who got affected by this, Headshot
20:31 Tonky > their weekend was ruined for the investigation
20:32 Tonky > and you knew loftar wasnt around when you sent your message, "loftar check your private message"
20:32 Headshot > Bug reported @ 7 am to loftar's irc pm
20:32 Headshot > After i poke him at chat
20:32 Tonky > yeah, like you would expect him to be around?
20:32 Headshot > Well, yes.
20:32 Tonky > thought youve been playing this long enough to know he wouldnt be around around that time
20:33 Headshot > Well, i dont use irc much. Just sitting on forum sometimes.
20:33 Tonky > but your pals are always stationed in this room
20:34 sockpuppet > D:
20:35 Headshot > Anyway its done. But it was fun, if i got a chance i will do that again.
20:35 Tonky > oh i bet you would, you wont stop even if you get banned, right?
20:35 Headshot > Thats not only OMG I WANNA WIN WITH BUG KILL KILL
20:36 Headshot > Thats clearly shows state of game and maybe devs rethink they p2p plan
20:36 Tonky > so you pay to play this to say p2p sucks? xD
20:37 Tonky > i take it that you just love this game so much, but just have a different way of expressing it
20:37 Headshot > Kinda lol
20:38 Tonky > thats rather cute but that doesnt work well, unfortunately
20:38 Headshot > But still a little bit angry about unbalacned quality/price
20:39 Tonky > you know, showing your anger is not exactly the way to get yourself heard
20:40 Headshot > Im ok to pay money for product, my steam is over 3k $. I see JL work but still not enough to pay AAA project mmo price for 4 weeks of play.
20:41 Suffragium > I still get more enjoyment out of HnH than I get out of WoW
20:41 Tonky > jorb and loftar doesnt work elsewhere, but now only living off of hafen
20:42 Headshot > I know and i agree with payments for work. Im even agree with pay2play. But even eve didnt so greedy.
20:42 Tonky > its not about being greedy
20:42 Tonky > its about CPI in sweden
20:42 Headshot > Offshore?
20:42 Headshot > easy like 1-2-3
20:43 Tonky > i heard steam offers you guys grandauto-theft at like 20 dollars?
20:43 Tonky > when we have to pay like 90 dollars only because we live in japan :p
20:43 Maiden > 56
20:43 Headshot > Yes. This is part of good price politic.
20:43 Tonky > 56 for america?
20:43 Tonky > i heard its 89 in japan
20:44 Headshot > Its 24$ for gta
20:44 Tonky > and i find it not fair
20:44 Alzuule > yeah well
20:44 Alzuule > in japan im pretty sure they earn more than in russia
20:44 Alzuule > so its kinda fair
20:44 Alzuule > same for america
20:44 Tonky > rich guys may, but it doesnt mean we all all rich, you know?
20:44 Headshot > It is fair, based on prices and economic situation.
20:45 Alzuule > no need to exclude big parts of the world from playing the game just because their part of the world isnt as fortunate
20:45 VDZ > Tonky, the value of cash in general differs per country
20:45 Alzuule > still tonky, minimum wage in america is a good bit higher
20:45 Alzuule > and as VDZ says
20:45 VDZ > The economic term is 'purchasing power'
20:45 Tonky > oh im sure, but this is an entertainment
20:45 Alzuule > what costs 5 dollars in america might cost 2 dollars in russia, but they earn less too
20:45 figaro > Damn this crash there does my silk
20:46 VDZ > The amount of stuff you can buy for an hour's worth of minimum wage is roughly equal in different countries (assuming a similar wage system)
20:46 Maiden > Sorry, the 56 was my accidently dropping something on my keyboard
20:46 Ukkie > any news on why the server hasnt been restarted yet?
20:46 VDZ > Even if the actual money is a hugely different amount
20:46 Maiden > Last I saw GTA was still $60
20:47 Tonky > because devs are asleep, Ukkie
20:47 Maiden > Although I got to say, I don't think it's greed as much as JNL not understand the global economy
20:47 Tonky > after all the mess

-snips-

20:50 Tonky > so, Headshot, whats your plan for now? another walljump soon?
-snips-
20:51 Tonky > and if you want devs to love you, try to report your bug when they are awake, Headshot
-snips-
20:51 Headshot > Tonky, well, if our test will be success it was remote character kill
20:51 Headshot > not even walljump
20:51 Tonky > remote character kill? that sounds new
20:51 VDZ > Then complain to the devs about the shitty steelmaking system
20:51 Tonky > who is your current target?
20:52 Saab_Draken > try target jorb when he is ig
20:52 Alzuule > haha
20:52 Tonky > dont tell me it only means hacking someones account
20:52 Alzuule > rip jorbs character
20:53 Tonky > that would be as low as portgas a while ago
20:53 Headshot > Tonky, dont insult me with hacking. Account stealing is only way of retards like AD kiddos
20:53 Badich > guys, you should use APXEOLOG client, recommended
20:53 Tonky > like i said, it would be as low as porty
20:53 Tonky > Badich, more you try to advertise, ppl would find it fishy
20:53 Headshot > For example tard who fork apxeolog's client and publish it with keylogger
20:53 Avu > at least you're funny badich
20:53 Tonky > best leave it be
20:54 Tonky > so what do you mean by "remote character kill" then, Headshot?
20:54 Tonky > if its not account hacking
20:54 Saab_Draken > he means killing people with archery
20:54 Headshot > Il keep this in secret.
20:54 Tonky > are you trying to ask for a ban?
20:55 Tonky > or are you going to try and report it when they are awake this time?
20:55 Headshot > Idk yet. Need to finish tests first.

timestamp utc+9

edit: sorry, portgas, now that i think about it, it was actually not you but another friend of yours instead? :p let ma apologize.

[Kaios]

Bug abusing to make a point about the state of the game is hypocrisy at its finest.

Another alternative was to simply do nothing and only fix the bug, which was the way they used to handle this kind of thing.

To do nothing probably would have caused more of a loss in players than what they decided to do, which by the way it seems not even the players with deleted characters and village have given up just yet so looks really like nobody quit because of this and a lesson was learned.

[Рortgas]

...

Firstly I got confused reading that you're saying about me stealing chars, but then I saw that edit. The man who was stealing them is Adriano, an AD member. I've even got owned by him in the end of w6, when my Shamil died due to hacked account of my mate living in my vault because he was using Adriano's client.

[Tonkyhonk]

...

Firstly I got confused reading that you're saying about me stealing chars, but then I saw that edit. The man who was stealing them is Adriano, ad member. I've even got owned by him in the end of w6, when my Shamil died due to hacked account of my mate living in my vault because he was using Adriano's client.

yeah, im really sorry about that, i wont forget that now.

[sabinati]

Well, not so dumb as dude with dick on userpick.

Not true apparently, I didn't go and abuse any bugs thinking there would be no consequences.

To be fair, there used to be no consequences before. It was not entirely unreasonable to think you could get away with it.

this ain't the first time the earth was salted by the gods at the precise location of certain people's town...

[Sevenless]

well, it appears that your punishment wasnt harsh enough for them to stop this, devs. better consider a real hardcore punishment for the next one that they claim they are planing to do.

timestamp: utc+9

20:20 Tonky > did you crash the server?
20:20 Headshot > What are you doing here tonkey? you should be at forum lick devs asses. Dont waste time, maybe they revive your char
20:20 Tonky > i dont have to get my char revived, headshot?
20:20 Tonky > what are you talking about?
20:21 insanechef > do bears attack with red?
20:21 Headshot > Is that you Tokneyhonk on forums?
20:21 Tonky > yes, just not tokney, its tonky
20:22 Tonky > im not your victim, unfortunately
20:23 Headshot > Ah, right. Sorry then :3
20:23 Tonky > np
20:23 Headshot > think that was you who cry a lot
20:24 Tonky > ha ha, want me to cry a river over you?
20:24 insanechef > video gamez srs business
20:24 Headshot > Well, im pretty nervous because of crash and time wasting. Hope we rebuild soon, but crashes.
20:24 Tonky > so it wasnt you who crashed it this time around?
20:24 t4nk > are you going to terraform your old base?
20:24 Headshot > Idk lol, maybe.
20:24 Tonky > maybe?
20:25 Headshot > We are still test some mechanics.
20:25 Tonky > watch out what you say :p
20:25 Headshot > Anyway nothing to nuke for now. Idk about alts
20:25 Headshot > idc*
20:25 Tonky > yeah sure
20:26 Tonky > i was half expecting you meant a good joke when you said "my farmer"
20:27 Headshot > Well. Im really enjoy farming\cooking and have pretty nice peacefull char. Hes gone too, and thats sad.
20:27 Tonky > too bad
20:27 Tonky > so mrHally wasnt Halloween?
20:28 Tonky > i kinda thought he was playing with you this world
20:28 Headshot > JL decide. Nothing to do with that.
20:30 Tonky > you live with erebes now? or are they completely innocent?
20:31 Headshot > Im still think this is a little bit overreaction with village nuke especially we report bug clearly. Del only raider characters will be enough. But looks like devs want to do public whipping.
20:31 Tonky > its not only the victims who got affected by this, Headshot
20:31 Tonky > their weekend was ruined for the investigation
20:32 Tonky > and you knew loftar wasnt around when you sent your message, "loftar check your private message"
20:32 Headshot > Bug reported @ 7 am to loftar's irc pm
20:32 Headshot > After i poke him at chat
20:32 Tonky > yeah, like you would expect him to be around?
20:32 Headshot > Well, yes.
20:32 Tonky > thought youve been playing this long enough to know he wouldnt be around around that time
20:33 Headshot > Well, i dont use irc much. Just sitting on forum sometimes.
20:33 Tonky > but your pals are always stationed in this room
20:34 sockpuppet > D:
20:35 Headshot > Anyway its done. But it was fun, if i got a chance i will do that again.
20:35 Tonky > oh i bet you would, you wont stop even if you get banned, right?
20:35 Headshot > Thats not only OMG I WANNA WIN WITH BUG KILL KILL
20:36 Headshot > Thats clearly shows state of game and maybe devs rethink they p2p plan
20:36 Tonky > so you pay to play this to say p2p sucks? xD
20:37 Tonky > i take it that you just love this game so much, but just have a different way of expressing it
20:37 Headshot > Kinda lol
20:38 Tonky > thats rather cute but that doesnt work well, unfortunately
20:38 Headshot > But still a little bit angry about unbalacned quality/price
20:39 Tonky > you know, showing your anger is not exactly the way to get yourself heard
20:40 Headshot > Im ok to pay money for product, my steam is over 3k $. I see JL work but still not enough to pay AAA project mmo price for 4 weeks of play.
20:41 Suffragium > I still get more enjoyment out of HnH than I get out of WoW
20:41 Tonky > jorb and loftar doesnt work elsewhere, but now only living off of hafen
20:42 Headshot > I know and i agree with payments for work. Im even agree with pay2play. But even eve didnt so greedy.
20:42 Tonky > its not about being greedy
20:42 Tonky > its about CPI in sweden
20:42 Headshot > Offshore?
20:42 Headshot > easy like 1-2-3
20:43 Tonky > i heard steam offers you guys grandauto-theft at like 20 dollars?
20:43 Tonky > when we have to pay like 90 dollars only because we live in japan :p
20:43 Maiden > 56
20:43 Headshot > Yes. This is part of good price politic.
20:43 Tonky > 56 for america?
20:43 Tonky > i heard its 89 in japan
20:44 Headshot > Its 24$ for gta
20:44 Tonky > and i find it not fair
20:44 Alzuule > yeah well
20:44 Alzuule > in japan im pretty sure they earn more than in russia
20:44 Alzuule > so its kinda fair
20:44 Alzuule > same for america
20:44 Tonky > rich guys may, but it doesnt mean we all all rich, you know?
20:44 Headshot > It is fair, based on prices and economic situation.
20:45 Alzuule > no need to exclude big parts of the world from playing the game just because their part of the world isnt as fortunate
20:45 VDZ > Tonky, the value of cash in general differs per country
20:45 Alzuule > still tonky, minimum wage in america is a good bit higher
20:45 Alzuule > and as VDZ says
20:45 VDZ > The economic term is 'purchasing power'
20:45 Tonky > oh im sure, but this is an entertainment
20:45 Alzuule > what costs 5 dollars in america might cost 2 dollars in russia, but they earn less too
20:45 figaro > Damn this crash there does my silk
20:46 VDZ > The amount of stuff you can buy for an hour's worth of minimum wage is roughly equal in different countries (assuming a similar wage system)
20:46 Maiden > Sorry, the 56 was my accidently dropping something on my keyboard
20:46 Ukkie > any news on why the server hasnt been restarted yet?
20:46 VDZ > Even if the actual money is a hugely different amount
20:46 Maiden > Last I saw GTA was still $60
20:47 Tonky > because devs are asleep, Ukkie
20:47 Maiden > Although I got to say, I don't think it's greed as much as JNL not understand the global economy
20:47 Tonky > after all the mess

-snips-

20:50 Tonky > so, Headshot, whats your plan for now? another walljump soon?
-snips-
20:51 Tonky > and if you want devs to love you, try to report your bug when they are awake, Headshot
-snips-
20:51 Headshot > Tonky, well, if our test will be success it was remote character kill
20:51 Headshot > not even walljump
20:51 Tonky > remote character kill? that sounds new
20:51 VDZ > Then complain to the devs about the shitty steelmaking system
20:51 Tonky > who is your current target?
20:52 Saab_Draken > try target jorb when he is ig
20:52 Alzuule > haha
20:52 Tonky > dont tell me it only means hacking someones account
20:52 Alzuule > rip jorbs character
20:53 Tonky > that would be as low as portgas a while ago
20:53 Headshot > Tonky, dont insult me with hacking. Account stealing is only way of retards like AD kiddos
20:53 Badich > guys, you should use APXEOLOG client, recommended
20:53 Tonky > like i said, it would be as low as porty
20:53 Tonky > Badich, more you try to advertise, ppl would find it fishy
20:53 Headshot > For example tard who fork apxeolog's client and publish it with keylogger
20:53 Avu > at least you're funny badich
20:53 Tonky > best leave it be
20:54 Tonky > so what do you mean by "remote character kill" then, Headshot?
20:54 Tonky > if its not account hacking
20:54 Saab_Draken > he means killing people with archery
20:54 Headshot > Il keep this in secret.
20:54 Tonky > are you trying to ask for a ban?
20:55 Tonky > or are you going to try and report it when they are awake this time?
20:55 Headshot > Idk yet. Need to finish tests first.

timestamp utc+9

edit: sorry, portgas, now that i think about it, it was actually not you but another friend of yours instead? :p let ma apologize.

There is an inevitability of the fact that doing what is fair is not always doing what is in your own best interest. The precedent of abusing a bug and then being let off because you reported it after you used it to extreme damage of others is not one that can possibly be set.

Far as I know that group has done things like this in the past, received some harsh penalties, and clearly they did it again. I don't know what else you can do to stop them.

[Myrgard]

Well as jorb said there was some leniency, so there is still room for improvement, for example permanently loosing an account you had for years can be harsh of it self