Pre-Announcement: Siege Changes

[Duane]

1. If a claim's shield is broken and that shield belongs to a village, Everyone's characters who have logged out ON THAT CLAIM, with hearthfires ON THAT CLAIM, or with affiliations TO THAT VILLAGE are logged in, forcefully. If you right-click a village claim, you should be able to get Smell of Scoundels that lead to village members, and where they are. Alt-vaulting is CANCER. Being able to keep stuff safe without being in an area where you ARE safe is STUPID. Logging off should not keep you safe if you've put yourself in a situation where your safety is not guaranteed - through your own fault, the fault of others or the desires of others to take your safety.

Wipe out a village for a world, what a fun game.

If this was implemented as you said, what I'd do is not be part of a village, quite simply. Teamspeak would suffice for village chat, and just use a dummy village with banners to claim the outer wall with pclaimed plots, and you can log out off the claims with alts as well as mains. If you tried to stop this behaviour of alt vaulting I'd just make an outpost, store my alt vaulting hearthfires there, and walk the alts over to my base. If you made it possible to not log out on my crafters, I'd just never play again after getting sieged once. Having a forced mass genocide of every single member of your village if some NEET faction spends 12hrs camping (or bot camping) their siege equipment is the dumbest suggestion I've ever heard with regards to siege, no offense.

Then get rid of tracking the village members and the idea becomes reasonable? Good, we're all settled. Get to coding, Loftar, so I can love you that much more.

IF YOUR VILLAGE IS SIEGED, YOU WOULD/SHOULD HAVE TO RESPOND REGARDLESS.

IF YOU DID NOT RESPOND, EVERYONE WOULD/SHOULD BE DEAD REGARDLESS.

SIEGING IS AN ULTIMATUM, NOT A THREAT. SIEGING IS A DIRECT DANGER.

Something needs to be done about alt vaulting. Something needs to be done about risk/reward/return. Razing a city's wall shouldn't mean worthless alts with yeomanry could casually pop back on a few hours later and go about repairs. If a siege is bad enough, people should have to move. If you're on a node that you really want, too bad - apparently you couldn't defend it well enough, had no friends to help you in your fight and got wiped for existing on the sidelines.

And your character should get killed if all he is is an alt vault, or at least be at risk. Alt vaults remove ALL RISK and that's /retarded/.

[Glorthan]

Then get rid of tracking the village members and the idea becomes reasonable? Good, we're all settled. Get to coding, Loftar, so I can love you that much more.

IF YOUR VILLAGE IS SIEGED, YOU WOULD/SHOULD HAVE TO RESPOND REGARDLESS.

IF YOU DID NOT RESPOND, EVERYONE WOULD/SHOULD BE DEAD REGARDLESS.

SIEGING IS AN ULTIMATUM, NOT A THREAT. SIEGING IS A DIRECT DANGER.

Something needs to be done about alt vaulting. Something needs to be done about risk/reward/return. Razing a city's wall shouldn't mean worthless alts with yeomanry could casually pop back on a few hours later and go about repairs. If a siege is bad enough, people should have to move. If you're on a node that you really want, too bad - apparently you couldn't defend it well enough, had no friends to help you in your fight and got wiped for existing on the sidelines.

And your character should get killed if all he is is an alt vault, or at least be at risk. Alt vaults remove ALL RISK and that's /retarded/.

Your suggestion still doesn't solve anything though? Yes, alt vaulting is dumb (with the exception of master keys), and already if you get raided, you don't have a safe wall for what, 36 hours+? We saw it with NB last world, they were literally unable to get a wall up without it getting bashed every fucking time. If you want siege to be an ultimatum, then it should be prohibitively expensive, as it destroys months of game investment, and quite frequently causes people to quit until the next world (bye bye subs), so it should come at great cost to the attacker.

Most people on the forums seem to disagree with the current binary "you got sieged you quit" and would prefer something more accessible (easier than sitting around for 12 hours) and less damaging.

[Duane]

Most people on the forums seem to disagree with the current binary "you got sieged you quit" and would prefer something more accessible (easier than sitting around for 12 hours) and less damaging.

In that case then all you need to do is make inheritance not brick characters to the point of quitting, then. Reincarnating isn't the problem - dying in the first place is. Salt-the-earth raids will never be possible and everyone who dies can and should be able to start over. So what if you lose your gold, silver and steel. The real problem is getting 100% 80% bricked if you die.

[Ysh]

Most people on the forums seem to disagree with the current binary "you got sieged you quit" and would prefer something more accessible (easier than sitting around for 12 hours) and less damaging.

In that case then all you need to do is make inheritance not brick characters to the point of quitting, then. Reincarnating isn't the problem - dying in the first place is. Salt-the-earth raids will never be possible and everyone who dies can and should be able to start over. So what if you lose your gold, silver and steel. The real problem is getting 100% 80% bricked if you die.

Permadeath is core feature.

[Duane]

Permadeath is core feature.

Yeah that's great. I didn't say resurrection. You should lose stats. You should not be a new character. Even Bob Dole, a character with several maxed stats, couldn't even mine or farm after he died, regardless of whether or not he wanted to. That's 'tarded. Wiped villages shouldn't be tombstones that individually say 'Here lies [Village Name]'s hopes and dreams'.

[Ysh]

Permadeath is core feature.

Yeah that's great. I didn't say resurrection. You should lose stats. You should not be a new character. Even Bob Dole, a character with several maxed stats, couldn't even mine or farm after he died, regardless of whether or not he wanted to. That's 'tarded. Wiped villages shouldn't be tombstones that individually say 'Here lies [Village Name]'s hopes and dreams'.

If you are not a new character, that isn't very much permanent death. I think you will have many resistance if you want to remove this core feature.

[Duane]

If you are not a new character, that isn't very much permanent death. I think you will have many resistance if you want to remove this core feature.

The game isn't permadeath right now, you still get 30% of your stats back max if you reincarnate. You literally just put your hands in your ears and screamed at me. You used to be able to reincarnate with 75% of your stats if you had full tradition. Now you get 30% IF you get your body and skull back. I don't want to remove it. It needs changed if siege is going to be changed and if trading is going to matter.

[Ysh]

If you are not a new character, that isn't very much permanent death. I think you will have many resistance if you want to remove this core feature.

The game isn't permadeath right now, you still get 30% of your stats back max if you reincarnate. You literally just put your hands in your ears and screamed at me. You used to be able to reincarnate with 75% of your stats if you had full tradition. Now you get 30% IF you get your body and skull back. I don't want to remove it. It needs changed if siege is going to be changed and if trading is going to matter.

Relax friend. I think the man with the large text typings can maybe be screaming? You seem quite defensive.

I think the game is close enough to permadeath at the present for you to be crying with this fit, no?

[Shadow7168]

If you are not a new character, that isn't very much permanent death. I think you will have many resistance if you want to remove this core feature.

The game isn't permadeath right now, you still get 30% of your stats back max if you reincarnate. You literally just put your hands in your ears and screamed at me. You used to be able to reincarnate with 75% of your stats if you had full tradition. Now you get 30% IF you get your body and skull back. I don't want to remove it. It needs changed if siege is going to be changed and if trading is going to matter.

Thus: If you have buried your ancestor entirely you inherit up to 60% of his stats total. Known skills are converted to their LP cost and inherited as LP. If you have already leveled beyond your ancestor when burying him, you receive no immediate benefit from the burial.

You do realize that you get 30% inheritance PLUS another 30% if you can retrieve the body. I don't see why you're saying that's worse than Legacy's full tradition at 75%. I mean, 95% of people ran full change, which might as well have been nothing.

Too many people play this game thinking "Oh, it's permadeath, but I'm careful, so I won't die." You should plan on your characters death. Make sure your crafters are safe, have a little plot away from your main village you can stay at if things get SNAFU.

Look, I'm not the greatest player. I've died alot, and I've been raided a fair share too. But every time that happens, I take it as a learning experience. That's what makes Haven special. I agree the siege system needs a serious overhaul, but I don't think the devs should make death any more forgiving.

[Glorthan]

You do realize that you get 30% inheritance PLUS another 30% if you can retrieve the body. I don't see why you're saying that's worse than Legacy's full tradition at 75%. I mean, 95% of people ran full change, which might as well have been nothing.

Too many people play this game thinking "Oh, it's permadeath, but I'm careful, so I won't die." You should plan on your characters death. Make sure your crafters are safe, have a little plot away from your main village you can stay at if things get SNAFU.

Look, I'm not the greatest player. I've died alot, and I've been raided a fair share too. But every time that happens, I take it as a learning experience. That's what makes Haven special. I agree the siege system needs a serious overhaul, but I don't think the devs should make death any more forgiving.

Yes, but given that the stats progression is linear, the 30% stats back gives 11% of your total lp/food used, and the 60% stats back gives 38% of your total lp/food used (ignoring single cost skills, which are refunded properly). His post wasn't far off, 10/40% rather than 0/30%.

I have no problem with permadeath, I've loved many games that have it. The problem is the amount investment into characters this game requires means that rather than dying and rebuilding, people just avoid death at all costs, and frequently quit when it happens because it sets you back potentially months. I've never seen a multiplayer game with this much investment that has functional punishing death mechanics, with the exception of hearing of stories of a couple of pvp permadeath diablo 2 servers back in the day with a few crazy and well respected vets.