Game Development: Stalking Garden

[jorb]

People wouldn't need to throw "tantrums" if you guys didnt do dumb stuff like this in the first place. This is the second time in what a month?

And therefore the most basic courtesies go out the window? No version of the game is final to us. We could get better at seeing the perspective of the player, but the reverse is also true.

[dageir]

How about introducing resources needed(essential) in many high end processes (for example in smithing) that are impossible to bot (maybe a mini game of sorts?) that is a chore to get for the higher end players, but viable for low levels to use for trade? The resource should be quality independent.

What this would be exactly I am unsure of. Maybe something harvested while mining, foraging or digging soil?

[jorb]

Yeah, we've discussed that, and I think it could be a good idea. Requiring more of a mix of products for the best end products.

[Enjoyment_2]

again, the gardener was introduced to make some shitty foragables not so shitty (instead of really making foraging good). Now - removing gardening won't make foraging great, but just removes a couple years of idea development and bring us back to point zero with shitty foragables. If you have a real stuff for garden pots as alternative - do it, show it, and only THEN remove forage from pots. That would be still a hard hit for most Gardeners but they would have some sugar at least. But just hitting 'em hard with promise to think about working on something about their loss in some future - is bad move. And thinking that it would make foraging great - is a bad idea - it won't. Just removes a piece of content out of the game, because "not worth investing time in it"

[jorb]

You don't have to rehash the last couple of pages worth of arguments with a sprinkling of "shitty-this-or-that" thrown in, thanks.

[Enjoyment_2]

you can replace "shitty" with "bad", that's won't change the point we were trying to deliver

[Colin500]

you can replace "shitty" with "bad", that's won't change the point we were trying to deliver

I think they got it after like 10 pages of tantrum, no need to repeat yourself again and again.

[Enjoyment_2]

you can replace "shitty" with "bad", that's won't change the point we were trying to deliver

I think they got it after like 10 pages of tantrum, no need to repeat yourself again and again.

really? let's see

Even while changes were restored in that regard, I still didn't see any explanation or way of thinking why such changes were made in first place, making me glad that You did restore but also making me being very uneasy that it still looks like the toilet bowl was just closed and shit is still there.

Our analysis (based on what?) is that in-base autarky is a problem with the game. Self-contained and self-supporting bases reduce the need to get out and about (that's their (bases) purposes, yeah), and with that also the dynamism of the game. Fewer encounters, fewer interactions with others, less multiplayer (so, maybe game needs more of them?). Foraging used to be more of a reason to get out and about (until become useless because of not-worth forage), but garden pots have reduced that need (not their fault though)), and this was a big argument made against the pots when they were first released. Arguing from realism (really, realism in heaven as argument?), blueberries (European) and chantrelles are not grown as crops to any large extent.

I am aware of the counter arguments (people would bot forage) and (low quality makes forage irrelevant) and (there are in-base replacements for a lot of the foods) and (people are heavily invested in the mechanic as it stood), and some (some?)of those were forcefully stated in this thread, and merit some consideration, and hence we re-evaluated. I maintain that the initial impulse was sound, and I do want to shift the balance more in favor of the wilderness, but can concede to making it a more gradual project (so this will come back with the same way it was, just slower?).

So? I ask myself - do devs really understand why all that shit-storm was, or

shit is still there.

[Nizuto]

Not sure if it's been mentioned before but as a hermit I mostly use gardening for stuff that don't really grow in my area.
Last world I remember searching the whole world for dill because it didn't grew in my area and it was a new thing implemented during that time. Now I'm growing chives because I'm pretty far from the biomes that grow them.

Gardening could be changed in the future to be a way for people to grow stuff not normally growing in their area or even continent. I'm not saying stuff like blueberries and chanterelles should be as biome dependent as chives, but the focus of gardening could be made into a way to grow stuff that are rare or local.

A way to balance out the plants people mass produce: maybe the products you get from gardening are a different item with lesser value per quality than their original wild counterpart. It could be something like the difference between water and spring water where wild stuff are the spring water equivalent. Things that you grow in the pots become a lesser version of their original, with lesser FEP effects. The upside being that you can mass produce and at exaggerated qualities becomes better than the wild ones. This way that lucky q40 blueberry mr. sprucecap found can be as good as the q160 blueberry kingdoms are growing for example.
Adjusting the growing time would help foraging too. If you wait too long for stuff to grow you might want to go forage till you get your harvest. Sure people would just allocate more space for gardening pots but if the growth time is adjusted well enough, people will have to consider if that plot of land could have been used for a better purpose than mass producing gardening related stuff.

[SovietUnion]

Well, there could be something like "Increase ql by X of foraged plant after collecting at least X amount of this plant".

This is an awesome idea