Prelude: World 15

[noindyfikator]

for us pve - we come to any joint game in the evening to chat on discord during a common online activity. Everyone chooses an activity to their liking, right? and no, we try to jointly defeat such enemies as mammoths and killer whales, using stats and not the landscape. It’s just that in the middle of the 13th world, someone killed one friend in a field, then they killed another in the mines and they left, there is no time to work again on the character’s statistics to catch up from scratch. in the end we quit and go to other games. We return, watch the content until again one of us runs into a very bored player. and so people fall off again. it's part of the world, it's just depressing, we play for fun and we have fun.

wtf you talk about. Show me how you kill a whale using stats and not the landscape

[VDZ]

Someone says that it’s like in life, but in life there is and has always been a serious punishment for killing innocents (there are exceptions, but that’s not what we’re talking about), this is not the case here, all you have to do is sit out a couple of days and that’s it, you’re clean.

Meanwhile, in the country of freedom:

While the rate at which murders are solved or "cleared" has been declining for decades, it has now dropped to slightly below 50% in 2020 - a new historic low. And several big cities, including Chicago, have seen the number of murder cases resulting in at least one arrest dip into the low to mid-30% range.

Note that this counts arrests, not even convictions. And there are countries where it's even worse.

[pietin2]

wish I could play but my youngest daughter changed all my pass words and sabatoged my pc and I can't down load the game I was Mama Dove5

[noindyfikator]

It's been a week, are there any new thoughts from developers side about hot topics like

• world size
• achievements
• early world trade
• remove of whale meat - viewtopic.php?f=48&t=73788
• bad hunger mechanics - viewtopic.php?f=48&t=74634
• increasing fixed hp by hearth container
• Many more which I am too lazy to mention

[SnuggleSnail]

I would like to reiterate if there's central spawns even if the world is smaller if you choose to leave the central continent you'll likely see less people than in the current world with (nearly) random spawns. If you want to play the game as if it's multiplayer you can stay put.

In world 12 (which had a small-medium central spawning continent) the western continent was like ~1/3rd the world's entire landmass. We mapped /most/ of it because of realm autism. There were like 15-20 villages on the entire continent. Literally so few people that building cairns there would've produced negative authority.

THAT SAID, it was kindof dickish for Jorbtar to not tell the people who would've chosen to leave central cont what the spawning mechanics were. Similar to the mine pyre thing. Once your have your village down it's unrealistic to move it, so I'm sure a lot of people who would've chosen to yeet themselves through the nearest vortex had they known ended up staying central.

[VDZ]

It's been a week, are there any new thoughts from developers side about hot topics like

• world size
• achievements
• early world trade
• remove of whale meat - viewtopic.php?f=48&t=73788
• bad hunger mechanics - viewtopic.php?f=48&t=74634
• increasing fixed hp by hearth container
• Many more which I am too lazy to mention

Other subjects brought up in this thread:

• Container expansion for sketches being P2W
• Concerns about armor scaling, particularly in relation to animals
• Drying frames should be liftable
• Maintenance fatigue causing players to quit playing
• Thing Peace making it hard to counter pclaim griefing (related C&I thread)

There was also some general concern about wounds possibly not scaling well (especially cave-ins) and some general concern about the new siege system, but no clear agreed-on objections from what I could see.

[khajios]

I would like to reiterate if there's central spawns even if the world is smaller if you choose to leave the central continent you'll likely see less people than in the current world with (nearly) random spawns. If you want to play the game as if it's multiplayer you can stay put.

In world 12 (which had a small-medium central spawning continent) the western continent was like ~1/3rd the world's entire landmass. We mapped /most/ of it because of realm autism. There were like 15-20 villages on the entire continent. Literally so few people that building cairns there would've produced negative authority.

THAT SAID, it was kindof dickish for Jorbtar to not tell the people who would've chosen to leave central cont what the spawning mechanics were. Similar to the mine pyre thing. Once your have your village down it's unrealistic to move it, so I'm sure a lot of people who would've chosen to yeet themselves through the nearest vortex had they known ended up staying central.

I was on that west continent, assuming I am remembering which world is which correctly. Had plenty of fun, seen people come through the nearby whirlpool once and a while, went through them myself whenever I wanted to find other players. It was a good time.

Unlike this world, where I was trapped on a small island filled with people who ran there because they were running from you specifically, and moving was just too much investment. Most of the people were nice and all, but I was spending too much time explaining basic game mechanics to people, and really prefer being in a nice unpopulated area.

There were so many runestones carved everywhere from people asking each other questions or marking quest givers and asking people not to cut them down. I was honestly surprised how little griefing happened to them.

[SpacePig]

you demand a small world and then when after the first month there are 100 people left in the game. Because you didn't let 900 out of 1000 players dry their skin and build a palisadе. At the beginning of the last world, my village moved only once.

[nyaanyaa]

I'm also someone that plays each world until I or my friend(s) get ganked. It sucks and I hate it, but it simply means I'm done playing for the world when it happens. Earlier this year I talked about it, but a talk is useless since the general consensus is "u mad bro?" and the pages of faction talk in this thread shows you what an enjoyable group it is to talk to.

To me Haven PvP is extremely flawed and un-fun for many reasons, primarily which is the goal is to find people that can't fight back to minimize your own personal risk. Ideally the other guy doesn't even have a weapon and no allies to call upon. I can't really see that as being fun, but I've only ever been on the receiving end and don't plan to join the other. PvP itself isn't the goal, it's the results that people value, I.E strengthening yourself with new loot or just being an asshole because your mom isn't watching. No one will convince me that chugging buckets and chasing a guy through trees for an hour is comparable to other types of multiplayer games. You want what comes after it.

Earlier in the thread 'carebear' was used somewhere inside the masturbatory PvP spiels, which I found interesting because its origin is in Ultima Online, which was a very cutthroat world that I enjoyed despite getting ganked and my house stolen multiple times and lots of other terrible stuff that people can't really appreciate without context. I played a thief sometimes so I wasn't fully innocent myself, although I justified morally with my combat weakness, choice of targets, and the thrill of the escape/chase that seemed fun for everyone involved (and my many many failures and deaths). UO was a world that continuously beat you down, but you could easily get back up. The goal of PvP in Haven is for the target to never get back up.

Lots of game theory and such had been learned from UO, especially since the developers themselves considered it to be a design failure. Not because Everquest and the like dethroned it, but because Ultima was a series where people were meant to live true to the virtues of the world. Even though you have the freedom to be bad, you should instead be good.
Unfortunately, like UO that came before it evil always wins in Haven. Kill everyone you see, bash their boats, kill their livestock, etc. Repercussion is theoretical.

But, like UO, Haven does have a lot of people that do want to get along and be friendly to people even if it's disadvantageous and risky to do so. The two areas I've lived in had people mark quest givers and the trees/rocks were never destroyed in the time that I was playing and I had nice conversations with people while exploring. Last world we even did some trading, although we got knocked out/looted and our boat bashed and quit before we could do much of it.
Haven actively punishes it with its game mechanics, but there are good people in it. Haven really does have some strong similarities to Ultima Online; people can live a virtuous life and resist the temptation to do bad, but you know that you'll never have the tangible rewards of a malicious actor. It's kind of realistic I guess. I don't like realism.

Anyway, if you're bored, you can read the "UO Postmortem of sorts" from Raph Koster, one of its lead designers. The words written there back in 2000 are quite relevant to Haven in 2023. https://www.raphkoster.com/games/snippe ... -of-sorts/

Looking forward to this world, I hope I and some friends can last a few weeks again. Thanks for reading my story; remember to like and subscribe. I don't think I'll have another conversation again in these forums, though.

[Exerosp]

In general, PvE tends to be vastly more popular in most survival games. Look at ARK, though it's kinda dead these days it's always been 70% or so preferring PvE rather than PvP, because people don't want to have anxiety and constantly think about their shit getting destroyed because of who knows how many reasons.

Offering a privately hosted PvE version would be ideal, especially for content creators. Then the "official" version could stay true to Jorbtar's ideals.