Prelude: World 14

[LaserSaysPew]

I think you guys are min-maxing too hard. If FEP efficiency scaling is linear with the hunger then eating a food with 2 hunger will reduce the FEP efficiency of the next food by... 0.53% (266% efficiency range spread over 1000 hunger, 0.2% of hunger translates to 0.2% of 266% ~= 0.53%) of the base value.
If you eat foods for 100 hunger you will reduce FEP gains by 26% (so from 300% at 0 hunger to 274% at 100 hunger). 100 hunger - that's a length of the old 300% hunger bar.
Is it really that big difference to suddenly do those weird micromanagement gymnastics?

And even if it's not linear I think the values are still going to be too small difference to warrant all this micromanagement.

edit: if anything then the current implementation promoted such micromanagement more, where you would balance at the border between 300% and 200% ranges. As soon as hunger falls to 300% you eat something and then wait for the decay, which is faster in 200% range, to return you to 300%. Is anyone doing such stuff?

Honestly, I am more afraid that the new implementation will make the new meta to eat as much as possible, rather than dealing with hunger. And the winner party will be not the one capable of keeping hunger low (because that will be impossible), but the one able to mass produce more food.

You're saying it's better than before?

Huge game systems that everyone is involved with and that take a big part of the gameplay. How many of those in the last couple years were made more player-friendly/less tedious/more fun vs more tedious/less fun?

Noone said they won't adjust hunger values of the food by like x4. We'll be lucky if we can eat the same amount as before.

[Procne]

You're saying it's worse than before?

And your main argument is that over the last couple of years any change to main mechanics made them worse, so this one must be for the worse too?

[LaserSaysPew]

You're saying it's worse than before?

And your main argument is that over the last couple of years any change to main mechanics made them worse, so this one must be for the worse too?

Psychologically it's worse. Before you ate and ate and it was the same bonus to feps until you reach a threshold. Now every piece of food you eat lowers your bonus feps. By a small amount, yes, but it's still there. It's the same as satiations, but you can't change to some other food to avoid it.

The hunger values on food dishes will thus be presented as ‰, rather than %.

Devs are not randomly changing stuff without a thought. If nearly every major change leads to more chores/tediousness, it's not some bad luck, it's the intention. So, while not "must be", it's pretty likely.

I could be wrong! I could be a total pessimist focusing on the worst, while missing some great and fun changes. What are those?

[Gustyboy]

Hi there,

I'm glad there is a wipe, and I'm happy to be part of W14 beginings.
I'm wondering if someone would explain me the "ore spiraling" mechanics or to point me to a topic/webpage where I can read about that ?
Thanks a lot.

[Sevenless]

Hi there,

I'm glad there is a wipe, and I'm happy to be part of W14 beginings.
I'm wondering if someone would explain me the "ore spiraling" mechanics or to point me to a topic/webpage where I can read about that ?
Thanks a lot.

We're not entirely certain how it will work. Previously though, it would work through the process of Cast Iron being converted into Wrought Iron. When converted, there would be a % increase in quality of the input ingredient which let the metal go higher quality than anything naturally spawning or the buildings used to generate it. Since you could take this metal and use it to upgrade some buildings/inputs into the process, it was possible to infinitely increase the quality of metal and by extension metal goods produced. There was also an element of being allowed to feed the metal back into the % quality boost process, with the quality of the tools involved dragging the quality down. This process would take more and more ore / spiral attempt eventually involving 1000s of ingots per anvil upgrade.

We're not sure how this process will work, it will be "spiralling but with a twist" according to the devs. We have spotted one weird sand structure that had metal being poured into it, with some people speculating it might be an anvil mould. That's all we know.

If like previous worlds: This mechanic is only relevant to large factions, and non-factions will continuously depend on trade with factions for even remotely competitive metal qualities. Realistically, there were very few non-faction villages that fell into the category of "relatively competitive metal" during non spiralling worlds, but they did exist. It also meant that for non-factions (who didn't trade) metal quality for pvp gear started making massive differences after 3-4 months. Again though, the people who weren't faction aligned and stood any chance in non-spiralling worlds were a very small group of players.

If you're not in a larger village, functionally it makes no difference to you.

[Gustyboy]

Thank you for the quick answer I remember this mechanic from an ancient world now you explain it.

[GamingRAM]

For those worried about iron spiraling...

I'm predicting the "twist" is going to be it'll be partially dependant on clay quality. In the trailer there was a mound of clay that looks like a moulding cast. I'm guessing for a lot of things we're going to need to melt metals into said cast, and the Q of it will be partially impacted by the Q of the clay used.

[VDZ]

I could be wrong! I could be a total pessimist focusing on the worst, while missing some great and fun changes. What are those?

In 2022 alone (which has been controversial for getting fewer patches than usual, particularly earlier in the year):
- Crop quality gains getting scaled to growth time in W14
- Mulberry leaves becoming multi-use in W14
- Scaffolds for better terraforming
- Cattle no longer walking through open gates
- Hearth magic for finding the location of Thingwalls
- Hearth magic for restoring discoveries
- Reduced butchering time

2021 had many more improvements, which I'm not going to list (but I am going to point out Charter Stones, re-added last December, which are likely going to make a significant difference in early W14). Take a look at the wiki for yourself for all the changes.

If you're not in a larger village, functionally it makes no difference to you.

Except for one element, assuming it still applies: demand for low-quality iron increases tremendously, allowing for easy trading for better stuff.

[Tubby_Squirrel]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xJIS3KjinPc

[SnuggleSnail]

Only for the purpose of faction PvP. The food system and attributes are relevant to much more than just PvP, tons and tons of PvE content is also affected and it will still be relevant for non-faction PvP between players who don't have absurd qualities.

I'm pretty sure PVE balance for the plebs is going to be affected a lot more by then being able to go to a market a buy a 1k quality set of armor for an inventory of cast iron more than them being able to spend 2 weeks straight making food to outstat something. Kinda retarded take, NGL.

@jorb
Hunger/satiations are only there to balance faction PVP, and they absolutely make the game over-complicated and less fun. I was in favor of them when spiraling wasn't there because it limited the maximum effort you could put into being stronk enabling more people to participate. With spiraling that limit is gone either way. At least hunger should not be in the game. This is not just my opinion. If you think otherwise you are objectively wrong.

Satiations should be more of an open discussion, but IMO with spiraling they're bad too.