Prelude: World 16.2

[SnuggleSnail]

Ma'am, I didn't say allat. I actually think haven PVP sucks now, and should be removed if they're not going to make it work.

Still, haven is a PVP focused game regardless of how much you don't want to engage with PVP, because you don't get to decide if you're involved in PVP. If haven is going to remain a PVP focused game then the game should teach you how to PVP at an extremely basic level like forcing you to learn to move well to catch small animals, or PVE combat sometimes reflecting PVP combat even slightly.

This is such a non-controversial, obviously correct fact that if your opinion is otherwise then you are just wrong (and tbh stupid). Like, sorry but you're very silly and can't be taken seriously

[beansahol]

Do you want to put some skin in the game?

All you have to do is play alone, log your progress and kills. Not sure how someone would prove they didn't use bots though.

The reality is, everyone involved with serious pvp is supported by big groups and a ton of bots. I'm not saying your 'ability to play' with chasing and combat isn't a skill. What I'm saying is that to make good fep and skill progress in the game you need a good system of production that you can't upkeep alone if all you do in game is go around looking for people to fight.

[beansahol]

Ma'am, I didn't say allat. I actually think haven PVP sucks now, and should be removed if they're not going to make it work.

Still, haven is a PVP focused game regardless of how much you don't want to engage with PVP, because you don't get to decide if you're involved in PVP. If haven is going to remain a PVP focused game then the game should teach you how to PVP at an extremely basic level like forcing you to learn to move well to catch small animals, or PVE combat sometimes reflecting PVP combat even slightly.

This is such a non-controversial, obviously correct fact that if your opinion is otherwise then you are just wrong (and tbh stupid). Like, sorry but you're very silly and can't be taken seriously

Other than the meaningless ad hominems this doesn't sound as bad as your initial post. Glad you walked it back!

The only way the game could model chases is stuff like races or time trials. Which I think would be a bizarre inclusion in this game and nobody would bother with them.

As for the combat system, sure? But how do you actually think they could model pvp accurate combat without overloading servers or making things weirdly complicated?

Have you ever played another MMO? pvp combat is always very different to pve, that's not a bad thing.

It sounds like what you actually want is a pvp queueing or battleground system, where people can have practice pvp matches against each other. That's what other mmos do when they want more pvp play, they don't start infesting the rest of the game with needless references to pvp that don't make sense from a thematic or gameplay perspective.

[Halbertz]

Do you want to put some skin in the game?

All you have to do is play alone, log your progress and kills. Not sure how someone would prove they didn't use bots though.

The reality is, everyone involved with serious pvp is supported by big groups and a ton of bots. I'm not saying your 'ability to play' with chasing and combat isn't a skill. What I'm saying is that to make good fep and skill progress in the game you need a good system of production that you can't upkeep alone if all you do in game is go around looking for people to fight.

I don't think you understand. Let me explain it.
I can easily prove you wrong using exactly the method you suggested. I'm willing to play this funny game. But adults, when they play things like this, make even bets. I'm willing to spend a couple of weeks feping and gearing up a character on my own, and attack as many groups as necessary. I'm also willing to spend the time documenting my gameplay.
Are you willing to make an even bet?
You can't just ask someone to prove to you that the moon isn't made of cheese by telling them to just fly to the moon and bring you a rock. I mean you can, but everyone will just call you an idiot.

[beansahol]

Do you want to put some skin in the game?

All you have to do is play alone, log your progress and kills. Not sure how someone would prove they didn't use bots though.

The reality is, everyone involved with serious pvp is supported by big groups and a ton of bots. I'm not saying your 'ability to play' with chasing and combat isn't a skill. What I'm saying is that to make good fep and skill progress in the game you need a good system of production that you can't upkeep alone if all you do in game is go around looking for people to fight.

I don't think you understand. Let me explain it.
I can easily prove you wrong using exactly the method you suggested. I'm willing to play this funny game. But adults, when they play things like this, make even bets. I'm willing to spend a couple of weeks feping and gearing up a character on my own, and attack as many groups as necessary. I'm also willing to spend the time documenting my gameplay.
Are you willing to make an even bet?
You can't just ask someone to prove to you that the moon isn't made of cheese by telling them to just fly to the moon and bring you a rock. I mean you can, but everyone will just call you an idiot.

Are you asking me to make a monetary bet with you about your progress on Haven and Hearth, based on your promise that you won't use bots or involve other people? And you think if I don't agree to that, I'm stupid?

I dunno what it is with weird elitist mmo weirdos and insisting they're smarter than everyone else. Unironically grow up.

[SnuggleSnail]

Literally everything you say is wrong. I just don't care enough to talk to a retard about it in most cases, but

Have you ever played another MMO? pvp combat is always very different to pve, that's not a bad thing.

This is actually one of haven's greatest, and probably most easily fixable failures. If you measure against the platonic ideal I think I'm pretty dogshit at haven PVP, yet I could probably 1v500 the bottom 50% of the server as soon as I get steel because they have zero transferrable PVP experience, in spite of many of them playing for 10 years.

There is no other MMO where it's like that. I'm way 'better' at PVP in WoW, but I could never win a 1v10. Because even if you've never done any PVP in WoW your fireball still hits the same as when you were killing murlocs, and you move your character the same as when you're just walking around. Everybody has at least some transferable experience there.

[Halbertz]

"I bet you can't do it!"
"Okay, I'm ready. You pay the expenses."
"NO, NOT LIKE THAT!"

[ZamAlex]

Haven doesn't have gurantie landing range dps and crowd control - thats all difference with other MMOs. So, at other MMOs you just need other person who will heal you/clear control, so you can do 2vs10 if you have better exprience and better gear if you want to be more realistic.
If bears at Haven was runing away and drinking water when they thought they couldn't win - pvp and pve expirence will be same. Animals use almost same combat system as players (minus animals spefic moves, armor and no equlization). As Snail said, it could be a good idea to add some form of hummanaid monsters that imitate players pvp interaction more closely, so difference with pve and pvp will be not real at all.

[Dawidio123]

Any big group could do what they're doing without any bots tbf, it's just a question of having ppl willing to waste hours of their life doing menial tasks which btw is an issue with the game itself. Would you rather have a farming bot or spend 2h a day doing fields, ain't nobody want to do consistent hours of labor for no reward (because endgame pve/industry loop is just not rewarding, smth smth w10, smth smth moving animal nodes ruins the progression after like month 3 of the world).
You can't really complain about an mmo rewarding group play xd

[beansahol]

Literally everything you say is wrong. I just don't care enough to talk to a retard about it in most cases, but

Have you ever played another MMO? pvp combat is always very different to pve, that's not a bad thing.

This is actually one of haven's greatest, and probably most easily fixable failures. If you measure against the platonic ideal I think I'm pretty dogshit at haven PVP, yet I could probably 1v500 the bottom 50% of the server as soon as I get steel because they have zero transferrable PVP experience, in spite of many of them playing for 10 years.

There is no other MMO where it's like that. I'm way 'better' at PVP in WoW, but I could never win a 1v10. Because even if you've never done any PVP in WoW your fireball still hits the same as when you were killing murlocs, and you move your character the same as when you're just walking around. Everybody has at least some transferable experience there.

Sure, so pvp in haven is technically very different to the rest of the game. I really don't think making rabbits catch wind and chase other rabbits for speed boosts is the answer though.

The only way to 'educate' people in pvp itg would be to implement something like battlegrounds. Lower risk easily accessible pvp where people can practice.