Prelude: World 16

[h3r0]

They will probably call me sprucecap, I have actually been playing for several years, I have rarely commented since I really speak Spanish, not English or Russian, I will only say one thing: opening up to steam and having 5000 people with the game on their wishlist is not the same as the current player base, I do not have much experience in combat, I have only fought with friends in unarmed practice fights and the closest thing to real pvp that I survived was some idiots chasing me while they told me things about how I was a stupid monkey and making an apology for the nazis, yes, there are players who dedicate themselves to killing newbies in groups while they talk about nazi things, I do not think that the vast majority of steam players would like to see how what they did in one or two weeks groping around without knowing exactly how to advance is destroyed by some idiots who tell them that they are stupid monkeys and long live hitler, I know that it is easier said than done, but they should stop listening To those whiny kids complaining that the bow is OP, or that SoS is OP, no, just because something can counter you doesn't make it OP, having to learn to fight against different styles or decks doesn't make it OP and not always being the bully that kills the newbies doesn't make the other game modes OP, they should restructure the combat system and include bows again, as someone said above, that in a battle of 60 people there are 3 archers is not synonymous with bows being OP, it's actually the opposite, they should (as someone previously suggested) look for combat to be a rock paper scissors, where the bow would be used to attack people with little armor but who are fast, people with heavy armor and shields counter bows but attack slower and people with swords/daggers/axes have more attack and movement speed but less resistance, and unarmed fighters have even more attack and movement speed but much more damage. reduced, instead of the current system where there is only a small group of whiny players who only know how to play a style that they have been mastering for years and who enjoy killing new players, congratulations to the developers for the launch on steam, I have been playing this game for several years, and the times I abandoned it halfway through the world it was precisely because of how boring it is to go to a swamp and have 15-year-old ''Nazi'' idiots show up to hunt solo players like me, and I think that will happen to a lot of steam players who see that they cannot defend themselves in any other way than the one these idiots have mastered for years.

(I know, a lot of text)

Using paragraphs to separate your points would help. Your English is not great, but we appreciate your input.

As far as the problem of people being Nazis, and killing new players without remorse, which I will combine into one issue: It's not an issue. It's the nature of the game, and the internet, and society, which the game is just a microcosm of. Assholes exist on the internet. So does free speech. This is a permadeath game, that uses real character interactions to create immergent gameplay. It doesn't filter human language, human thoughts, or human actions/urges/natures. It should probably be studied by scientists and psychologists. No negative or toxic experience, including dying because of an unkown mistake to experienced players, should do anything but increase the attractiveness of the game, to anyone who is a true fan, and I hope that steam players are not able to sway the devs too much. I also, on the contrary, hate how the top "pros", and "whales", not always the same thing, are able to sway the devs so much either.

As for the bow, and other changes. They are dumb. You are not crazy. Jorb added them for no explained reason, and the reason is probably terrible. Nobody should feel bad or crazy for pointing this out.

I don't think the toxicity of the playerbase will be what tanks the game on steam, if anything. I do think that this game should probably contain a warning, and an 18+ label. Seriously.

I am actually very excited and hopeful for this, and want to see how Steam players experience it and can't wait to read all the stories and the inevitable articles about this game, should the launch be successful. It is truly a game which can produce profound experiences.

I still think it's going to be a disaster though.

Edit: to expound: perhaps this is a lost cause posting it in this thread, but I think that there is a massive misunderstanding about the psychology of players and quitting. I think the issue is not dying, or being griefed. The issue has always been that the top players, the players who exploit numbers, bots, knowledge, glitches, etc, allows them to gain exponential power to the point that nobody feels they actually have any meaning in the world unless they are able to start week 1, which is mostly in their head, because they never stood a chance to begin with. My point is that the game is too far weighted towards players with toxic playstyles and it creates a non-competitive atmosphere. In reality, this is just like some kind of MMO roguelike. Dying is part of the game. It's arguably the single most important feature of the game. People would be ok with dying if they felt they could actually start over and stand a chance without giving up.

Edit 2: By toxic players I mean whales and pros, essentially, and those with access to special clients/bots/knowledge/people. Stop freaking nerfing the game for middle class griefers and even innocent hermits. You guys are missing the entire point. Nerf the shit that makes the game pointless and hopeless to compete or even play in after 3 months. You guys keep nerfing things that a few noobs discover they can gain an advantage with. You are punishing intelligence. Give things a chance to play out before pandering to whales who are literally just trying to exploit the game. Listen to reason and passion.

Edit 3: The psychology which is most misunderstood, is the assumption that anyone who isn't intelligent/obsessive/abnormal/in-some-way-or-another is going to actually be a player and contributor to the community and development costs. Even though we seem to have a bunch of retards here, they are still on average(perhaps not median) above-average intelligence. The cruel truth is, that most people will quit this game after a week, if not immediately. Who gives a shit what they think. It's not their game.

Edit 4: I have quit the game a dozen times. Sometimes it was because of a ragequit over a stupid death. That never decreased my interest in the game. I've been a loyal fan, eagerly awaiting every single new world. Death just happens. And sometimes we need to die, and take a break.

[orlandina]

As far as the problem of people being Nazis, and killing new players without remorse, which I will combine into one issue: It's not an issue. It's the nature of the game, and the internet, and society, which the game is just a microcosm of. Assholes exist on the internet. So does free speech. This is a permadeath game, that uses real character interactions to create immergent gameplay. It doesn't filter human language, human thoughts, or human actions. It should probably be studied by scientists and psychologists. No negative or toxic experience, including dying because of an unkown mistake to experienced players, should do anything but increase the attractiveness of the game, to anyone who is a true fan, and I hope that steam players are not able to sway the devs too much. I also, on the contrary, hate how the top "pros", and "whales", not always the same thing, are able to sway the devs so much either.

I don't think the toxicity of the playerbase will be what tanks the game on steam, if anything. I do think that this game should probably contain a warning, and an 18+ label. Seriously.

I am actually very excited and hopeful for this, and want to see how Steam players experience it and can't wait to read all the stories and the inevitable articles about this game, should the launch be successful. It is truly a game which can produce profound experiences.

I still think it's going to be a disaster though.

Edit: to expound: perhaps this is a lost cause posting it in this thread, but I think that there is a massive misunderstanding about the psychology of players and quitting. I think the issue is not dying, or being griefed. The issue has always been that the top players, the players who exploit numbers, bots, knowledge, glitches, etc, allows them to gain exponential power to the point that nobody feels they actually have any meaning in the world unless they are able to start week 1, which is mostly in their head, because they never stood a chance to begin with. My point is that the game is too far weighted towards players with toxic playstyles and it creates a non-competitive atmosphere. In reality, this is just like some kind of MMO roguelike. Dying is part of the game. It's arguably the single most important feature of the game. People would be ok with dying if they felt they could actually start over and stand a chance without giving up.

Edit 2: By toxic players I mean whales and pros, essentially, and those with access to special clients/bots/knowledge/people. Stop freaking nerfing the game for middle class griefers and even innocent hermits. You guys are missing the entire point. Buff the shit that makes the game pointless and hopeless to compete or even play in after 3 months. You guys keep nerfing things that a few noobs discover they can gain an advantage with. You are punishing intelligence. Give things a chance to play out before pandering to whales who are literally just trying to exploit the game. Listen to reason and passion.

Edit 3: The psychology which is most misunderstood, is the assumption that anyone who isn't intelligent/obsessive/abnormal/in-some-way-or-another is going to actually be a player and contributor to the community and development costs. Even though we seem to have a bunch of retards here, they are still on average(perhaps not median) above-average intelligence. The cruel truth is, that most people will quit this game after a week, if not immediately. Who gives a shit what they think. It's not their game.

<3

[soroman]

where the bow would be used to attack people with little armor but who are fast, people with heavy armor and shields counter bows but attack slower and people with swords/daggers/axes have more attack and movement speed but less resistance, and unarmed fighters have even more attack and movement speed but much more damage.

I completely agree, we need to change the system itself.

[h3r0]

They will probably call me sprucecap, I have actually been playing for several years, I have rarely commented since I really speak Spanish, not English or Russian, I will only say one thing: opening up to steam and having 5000 people with the game on their wishlist is not the same as the current player base, I do not have much experience in combat, I have only fought with friends in unarmed practice fights and the closest thing to real pvp that I survived was some idiots chasing me while they told me things about how I was a stupid monkey and making an apology for the nazis, yes, there are players who dedicate themselves to killing newbies in groups while they talk about nazi things, I do not think that the vast majority of steam players would like to see how what they did in one or two weeks groping around without knowing exactly how to advance is destroyed by some idiots who tell them that they are stupid monkeys and long live hitler, I know that it is easier said than done, but they should stop listening To those whiny kids complaining that the bow is OP, or that SoS is OP, no, just because something can counter you doesn't make it OP, having to learn to fight against different styles or decks doesn't make it OP and not always being the bully that kills the newbies doesn't make the other game modes OP, they should restructure the combat system and include bows again, as someone said above, that in a battle of 60 people there are 3 archers is not synonymous with bows being OP, it's actually the opposite, they should (as someone previously suggested) look for combat to be a rock paper scissors, where the bow would be used to attack people with little armor but who are fast, people with heavy armor and shields counter bows but attack slower and people with swords/daggers/axes have more attack and movement speed but less resistance, and unarmed fighters have even more attack and movement speed but much more damage. reduced, instead of the current system where there is only a small group of whiny players who only know how to play a style that they have been mastering for years and who enjoy killing new players, congratulations to the developers for the launch on steam, I have been playing this game for several years, and the times I abandoned it halfway through the world it was precisely because of how boring it is to go to a swamp and have 15-year-old ''Nazi'' idiots show up to hunt solo players like me, and I think that will happen to a lot of steam players who see that they cannot defend themselves in any other way than the one these idiots have mastered for years.

(I know, a lot of text)

Trust me brother, if you right now join some faction and actively participate in pvp, that potential future you will facepalm himself to death rereading this.

Is that really the nature of the game? Why should somebody have to bow to somebody else if they just want to be free and play a survival game and enjoy the non-imperial aspects of (half) the game? Why should somebody not be able to join as a hermit, play for a few months, and start a village themselves?

It didn't always used to be like this. I mean, sure, certain groups always ended up inevitably dominating the game, but now it's like the game is actually encouraging only rule-by-numbers/connections playstyle, which I don't like. It is however a natural progression of the game, akin to civilization itself, and my natural tendency is to gain power through other means, so for me it is a challenge. And as somebody who doesn't want to join anything, only wants to be a boss, that's my own problem, for not preparing or studying the game enough or getting access to bots.

It isn't unbalanced to the point of something like EVE Online, for example. A noob could come in, master the game, and prove a real challenge to actual factions. Rare, but possible. And there are many mechanics in the game which are yet to be fully understood/exploited.

And this is why the game has been so great even though I consider it moderately p2w, personally. (pay2haveaccesstodiscordserverswithcustomclients/botsTBH, not even the shoppe itself) I have always had a profound experience playing it; I have always, as a result of my persistence or intelligence, been able to master the game in one way or another, get far past the level of power I imagined possible, and every time I've died, I felt that I could have prevented it, even though a lot of the deaths were stupid. And I could have chosen to keep playing. It's always told a story that made sense to me, personally. It's hard to explain. I just really love this game. It's my favorite game.

Personally, all my deaths have taught me a lesson and happened in an almost sychronistic way, teaching me lessons about life itself. Sounds crazy. Not to say I haven't had terribly bad luck at times, but that's part of the game. That's honestly karma for what I've done to other noobs.

Most of the problems come from botters. Nobody would really complain about numbers or knowledge, but botters are a different story.

[soroman]

now the game is focused on the old factions that dominate the game and from the very start the average player is already out of competition with them. These factions promote changes in the game and there are even more.refocus the games on the average player. limit such a global gap in stats. maybe the old players will leave, but a lot of new ones will come and this will give the game a second wind.

[h3r0]

I am really excited to see some new hermit villages and the shenanigans that go on within the inter-politics and policing and the new-found viability of being a thief(thanks to population and newbs). Should be very interesting and reminiscent of times when certain internet boards forms groups together.

Don't fuck the launch. Please. You'll be millionaires if you pull this off.

[h3r0]

now the game is focused on the old factions that dominate the game and from the very start the average player is already out of competition with them. These factions promote changes in the game and there are even more.refocus the games on the average player. limit such a global gap in stats. maybe the old players will leave, but a lot of new ones will come and this will give the game a second wind.

100% the problem itself you nailed it. But swaying the devs is another story.

[soroman]

now the game is focused on the old factions that dominate the game and from the very start the average player is already out of competition with them. These factions promote changes in the game and there are even more.refocus the games on the average player. limit such a global gap in stats. maybe the old players will leave, but a lot of new ones will come and this will give the game a second wind.

100% the problem itself you nailed it. But swaying the devs is another story.

it is possible to create in the future another server with different rules and focused on the average player, limiting the possibility of a global gap in the characteristics of players and this will make it possible to get away from the superiority of the old factions. the thing is that they are the ones who write massively on forums and promote their ideas. View the messages and wishes of players with less than 500 messages. and there are actually a lot of them, but they quit the game because of being crushed

[h3r0]

now the game is focused on the old factions that dominate the game and from the very start the average player is already out of competition with them. These factions promote changes in the game and there are even more.refocus the games on the average player. limit such a global gap in stats. maybe the old players will leave, but a lot of new ones will come and this will give the game a second wind.

2 worlds, which I suggested a long time ago, is the solution. Noobs will quit and realize they are out of their league. That's just the nature of the game, currently at least. 6 Months is not a long time to wait. They'll learn from their mistakes and try again.

The 2 worlds 6 months rule is perfect. It will also discourage some top players from starting immediately in the new world. They'll finish their current world then start halfway into the new world, hopefully at least.

It's a great idea for so many reasons. It solves the world ending too soon, population issues, and the world not starting soon enough. Until a better solution can be made. It's the best idea they've ever had, and with steam players it will be possible, if they don't fuck this up.

Does anyone really believe that if top factions still had business to handle they wouldn't remain playing in old worlds? I believe they would. I don't think they start early necessarily to gain an advantage. They start early because the old world is dead and they might as well start getting an advantage. Does anyone really think these top factions would feel less-empowered by starting late? They might even consider it a challenge.

Edit: Ok sure, they might. They will do anything for an advantage. But imagine if they still had wars to fight, things to resolve. That would at the very least decrease their ability to focus on the new world. I think it could work. Seriously. I could see them playing both worlds simultaneously.

Edit 2: We/devs don't need steam to be successful. If even 1000 players become fans the devs will be living a new reality and the game will be in better hands. Screw steam. Steam is just a way to recruit any remaining diehard loyalists.

Devs are Glorious

[kraken]

too much words