Prelude: World 15

[SnuggleSnail]

It's rly easy to see all the retards putting in literally 0 effort and then complaining they get punished for it, and think that it's just because they're subhuman idiots incapable of being in charge of their own destiny even slightly.

But Haven is the only game I've ever played where people who've played for a decade+ can still remain so fucking useless I could 10v1 them easily. When you think of it from that perspective it's hard not to blame Jorbtar for the game not passively teaching you what to do. Nobody's ever played WoW/Ultima/whatever for 10 years and not been able to combat/movement at even a basic level.

[Aerona]

It's not all skill, a large part of it is just that H&H has an extremely high ceiling on how powerful player characters can get. Because of this it's easy to just decide it's not worth trying to compete for combat power, since anyone who isn't focused on PvP is bound to run into an opponent who could literally be AFK for the first two minutes of a fight and still win with one hand within seconds of coming back. (Though that doesn't apply so much for escaping combat, since stats don't make hearthlings much better at running around.)

It brings to mind other games where it doesn't matter what a player learns about PvP because some of their opponents will be able to regenerate health faster than they can damage them, even while backstabbing. H&H doesn't go that far, but the many games that have that issue try to avoid it by keeping powerful characters away from weak ones. H&H has few mechanisms for doing that. (Mostly just walls.) I suspect more players would try to learn how to PvP if it didn't also take hours of grinding to get to the point where their opponents can't tank their arrows like a superhuman juggernaut without so much as flexing their abs.

[SnuggleSnail]

I've seen decent faction fighter characters be drowned by literal 10 stat fresh alts on dugouts.
I've 2v15ed bigboi koreans with similar stats to me and gay trap full killed 3 of them.
I've offline killed so many high stat bois because they made dumb security mistakes.
I wiped the #3 group this world and killed most of them even tho my group only a couple people who had rly been in fights before.

If in your mind the only avenue for competition is standing still and smacking each other until somebody falls down you're thinking about it very wrong. You just need to be competent enough to escape when things aren't in your favor and otherwise think like a rat. Having very bad characters definitely makes things harder, but it's not rly that much of an issue - and not an issue at all if your only goal is to not die.

[MightySheep]

In fact, haven’t you yourself been tired of playing with the same people for about 15 years, practically not giving newbies a chance to get used to it? This game originally had a low barrier to entry, but now it seems incredibly low. I don't have access to statistics, maybe this is just my erroneous opinion.

My first world w5 I joined the world late and I thought this was a battle royale and had photobuket of kills which had 30 screenshots I went 30-0 k/d. I had absolutely no idea what I was doing I wouldnt have won any fights vs "faction" pvpers but back then, as now, 90% of the playerbase doesnt even ATTEMPT to learn the basics.

Have you noticed half he people who cry that its just simply IMPOSSIBLE to run away and all this shit about waaaaa poor newbies, making excuses etc arent even new lol.... "Den4X-Joined: Sat Dec 03, 2011 7:48 pm". It's just different mindset, some people have victim mentality from gay 1 and wont ever let it go, god forbid you learn how easy it is to simply run away and defend because then you wont be able to play the victim card

My point bringing up my W5 experience is just that the idea of "new" = victim is a meme, any brand new player would probably shit on you if he just made even the slightest attempt to learn the game systems. Any person in this forum right now crying about how they quit when they get ganked, can be the ganker instead of the ganked if they chose to but they dont, they read too many snail posts and think there is some insurmountable barrier to pvp when rly if u can kill a fox u can probably kil most ppl in haven

[Aerona]

Meanwhile, there's others who can kill a bear barehanded...

It's been a while, I remember having run away successfully a couple times the last time I played without using any kind of weird meta. (I think one of the times the guy showed mercy when my hearthling went down from Thorn in the Foot after he broke my clogs.) But there's no real way to know what kind of client an opponent is using or what's in their inventory, and that's still true now, we just have posts on the forums about "carry more water! wear more belts! use a better UI!" which is not helping with the impression. It's not clear everyone's having the same experience, especially when considering the forager credo and clients that automate using its speed bonus in PvP chases. New players don't have access to credos yet, have no reason to assume 'foragers' are better in PvP once they do, and are unlikely to use clients that make that bonus practical to use during a chase. They probably won't even know that they can trick the game into letting them drink water while sprinting.

[VDZ]

Stop feeding the troll. Please. "Aerona" is only spouting bad takes to derail the thread. Let's focus on what the devs can change (or refrain from changing) to make the new world better rather than have discussion #953245 about how sprucecaps suck.

[Aerona]

If the game is getting better for an ever-shrinking number of people, it's not really getting better. Fighting to put yourself at the centre just puts you at the centre of nothing eventually. You should refer back to what Jorb and Loftar have said about the game and their intent, what parts of it they celebrate and which they find sketchy. Ultimately, without their work and their enjoyment of it the game and the website don't exist, so there's no way to win by attempting to shut out anything they might be interested in.

[Nightdawg]

It really doesn't take much effort to get decent at this game

It's not some VIP exclusive club you know...

[TheServant]

I've seen decent faction fighter characters be drowned by literal 10 stat fresh alts on dugouts.
I've 2v15ed bigboi koreans with similar stats to me and gay trap full killed 3 of them.
I've offline killed so many high stat bois because they made dumb security mistakes.
I wiped the #3 group this world and killed most of them even tho my group only a couple people who had rly been in fights before.

If in your mind the only avenue for competition is standing still and smacking each other until somebody falls down you're thinking about it very wrong. You just need to be competent enough to escape when things aren't in your favor and otherwise think like a rat. Having very bad characters definitely makes things harder, but it's not rly that much of an issue - and not an issue at all if your only goal is to not die.

You are the person with the most amount of brain damage i ever encountered. Stick to making good suggestions and stop bragging about your skills with dumb logic. Half of your posts are meaningless shenanigans.

In your mind, everyone who isnt a pro player in csgo is a retard because they both have same HP and do the same damage with a ak47. You spend most of you day playing this, do you think everyone invest the same amount of time to have good skills?

[Den4X]

if u can kill a fox u can probably kil most ppl in haven

Anyone can kill a fox within 20 minutes of spawning, this is not an indicator, it is enough to have a boat made of log.
I still don’t agree that it’s easier to run away than to catch up, especially if you have a good client, especially if a group of people are chasing and if you didn’t deliberately prepare for the fight and escape.
And yes, I noticed that this is mainly a problem for noobs. I don’t understand this competition - kill all the noobs and be left alone in a huge dead world with a bunch of elderly nerds. It would be nice to find a way to increase their survivability so that they have time to learn how to play and find company. Unfortunately I don't have any good ideas to solve the problem.