Pre-Announcement: Siege Changes

[LadyGoo]

Thoughts? Is there a reasonable compromise between our suggestion and the present regime? Could we make catapults have a two hour initial drying time? Three?

Any waiting time without some kind of siege mechanism defending walls/fences is a no-no.
The major thing I still dislike about the siege system is that there is no siege engine protection mechanisms. You cannot build any walls on enemy's territory. Consequently, every single village will expand their vclaim for 40+ tiles away, so you would not be able to have a palisade around the siege engine and remain vulnerable to attacks. That will make most of the raiders to lose any motivation to siege anything.

@DanteThanatos, if your gameplay is based around stealing salt from major factions, trying to take over their resources and piss them off without being able to face the consequences, you're better quit doing so. It is called common sense, you know.
As for the brimstones, again, you are overestimating how many of them a faction can gather and maintain (they do decay).

You can't possibly tell me that no one is working hard enough.

This. I am capable of making a stat-caped character in 2 days time.

[wolf1000wolf]

Does no one want options that are less total than complete destruction and pillage of a base?

That would require nuance. Do you see any nuance around?

Ppl have suggested systems that result in raids that aren't about the destruction of the walls and then complete pillage.

Seriously, are the devs that married to the idea of our current system? As I mentioned, they do have the data to show exactly how much of their population are in large factions, how much are small villages, and how much are solo/duos right? Why design systems that are only ever going to get used by the large factions and those who have apparently 12 hour blocks of time to sink into an endeavor?

[Jalpha]

Why should a solo player have all of the game unlocked for them?

[MightySheep]

Does coles not have some sort of point?

Catapults do 200hp dmg per shot, shields have 60k soak. Are you asking if it is a problem that people can create 300 insta-fire catapults to break a shield? (318 if you factor in shield regen)

That is a bit of a far-fetched thing to worry about don't you think? If the attackers dont have the manpower to defend their catapult, how will they even be able to construct new catapults without dying or gain entry to the village when they are done?

Consequently, every single village will expand their vclaim for 40+ tiles away, so you would not be able to have a palisade around the siege engine and remain vulnerable to attacks.

True, even if they dont already have extended claims, they have plenty of time to make banners during a raid. Once claimed, doesnt that then allow "evict" command or does that require walls? What protection is there against alt spam? Alts can be used to break catapult signposts as soon as they are made, as well as lots of other annoying behavior like blocking people in and there is nothing to stop the defenders spamming them endlessly. Lets not forget that alts can currently dismount and steal horses just by clicking "inspect", is that even fixed yet? What about being able to attack people while on a claim even if you dont have rage, isn't that still a thing? Alt spam needs to be fixed.

[wolf1000wolf]

Why should a solo player have all of the game unlocked for them?

You're going too far in the other direction. I didn't say solo players should have access to siege mechanics (that'd be dumb).

However, how much of the population are small 3-5 man groups or 5-10 ppl groups? With our current mechanics, are those ppl ever going to engage in siege?

Properly designed systems could allow for both large factions and smaller groups to be involved. Why not?

[Jalpha]

Catapults do 200hp dmg per shot, shields have 60k soak. Are you asking if it is a problem that people can create 300 insta-fire catapults to break a shield? (318 if you factor in shield regen)

Catapult shots deal, randomly, from 600HP and upwards.

Properly designed systems could allow for both large factions and smaller groups to be involved. Why not?

Well arguably they would be if they had a geyser nearby.

[springyb]

Attackers want to be able to raid within a reasonable amount of time.

Defenders want to avoid waking up and finding out they lost everything just because they were asleep and couldn't fight back.

It seems like the only way to have both is to give defenders a way to defend while offline. Maybe a sort of brimstone powered engine that shoots back at catapults or players damaging the claim it's on.

[wolf1000wolf]

Attackers want to be able to raid within a reasonable amount of time.

Defenders want to avoid waking up and finding out they lost everything just because they were asleep and couldn't fight back.

It seems like the only way to have both is to give defenders a way to defend while offline. Maybe a sort of brimstone powered engine that shoots back at catapults or players damaging the claim it's on.

A way other games deal with this issue is have the defenders set times where their village is vulnerable to atk.

[strpk0]

Maybe have some sort of brimstone-based defense mechanism for siege engines? Maybe being able to summon nidbane-like things to protect your siege engines while you're away?

[DanteThanatos]

@DanteThanatos, if your gameplay is based around stealing salt from major factions, trying to take over their resources and piss them off without being able to face the consequences, you're better quit doing so. It is called common sense, you know.
As for the brimstones, again, you are overestimating how many of them a faction can gather and maintain (they do decay).

I am capable of making a stat-caped character in 2 days time.

Salt shouldn't be claimed in the first place. But this is not the place to talk about this.
Pissing someone off will generally have consequences, yes I agree. What does this have to do with what we are talking? Please clarify.
The way I see brimstone is as a work around the issue that I said. As the game stands there is no balance that can be achieved.
Hermits are either doomed or safe. Factions are either bored or in panic as the siege mechanic changes.
Then you make a stat-caped character in 2 days and what? Place it on the shelf as a raid isn't worth it or lose it because the village was flash raided and he had that crime because a "filthy nab" kept stealing salt from you.

I don't have a brilliant answer on how the game or how the sieges should change.
The only thing I see is that the way it is right now it is, sadly, not able to reach a good balance.