Prelude: World 16.1

[reqvaa]

pls, make some changes for this world to make quality grind endless? like bones tool softcapping again or so, new ore spots and so on

[vatas]

Removing speed boosts would be a good experiment tbh. If its terrible, you can always just bring them back

Foreword: I'm perennially a noob when it comes to PvP. But lets not get sidetracked by the issue of it being hard to "get into."

My understanding is that speed boots were implemented (at least on part) because, on paper, newbs would get most use out of them. But the obvious problems are:
1) how do you communicate to the newb that you need to pick up speed boosts?
2) how will a newb know how much it's worth to stray from the vector, leading directly away from the PK chasing them, to pick up one?

Even if this was a nerf to some casual players who do know how to use speed boosts to get away from PK chases, unfortunately I will assume these make a rather small fraction of the overall playerbase. My forecast would be that the beneficial effect on the wider PvP ecosystem would result in a better play experience for every player, on average.
(Big reason why Snail has the reputation he has, is that he has a tendency to stick around after ever other major PK has already quit. Faction PvP should unironically be "buffed" to make it less of an autistic test of endurance, because that should mean there's a significant number of slightly less autistic people to fight the turbo-autists. Or at least they last longer than three months maximum.)

[kortigus]

I got an idea, not sure how much work this would be to add but it might be neat to have.
Something more for the fun of it, but hey, why not.

A contract board! (Or quest board)

Build it with some planks, bone glue, etc, takes up roughly 1x3 tiles.
Works sort of like a Barter stand, but for each "contract" (of which there could be 4) has slots for:
- Paper (An optional slot for a written parchment that can be read while viewing the contract)
- 1~2 slots for contract reward (what will be provided upon delivery of requested items)
- 5 slots for the owner to designate requested items and their qualities/quantities
All of the filled requested item slots would need to be acquired together to complete the contract.

How does this differ to Barter Stands?
Allows you to specify a group of items to exchange, rather than just a 1:1 swap.
Also thematically fun (and possibly useful) in that you can post a description to go with it.

That's it. Thanks for the read.



Oh, also perhaps a mechanic to forcefully prevent a player from dropping past 1hhp due to pvp where they would otherwise have had "knockout protection" if they were first knocked out.

[Nightdawg]

Give us access to the resource tools/scripts, to make custom content

What do you mean by this, more precisely? I'm sure I don't need to tell you that just because you can make resources, doesn't mean you can add mechanics to the server. Are you talking about custom "resource packs"?

All that being said though, I've said it before, but even if I could "extract" the resource scripts from the rest of the infrastructure (which would be quite a task), I really don't think they would be useful to any external parties anyway, since they're much more of a "compiler" than an "archiver". I don't have scripts or tools to decompile resources.

You can start with simple stuff like whatever you use to convert Blender 3D object files into the resource layers.
We'd make the models for new items, armors, clothes, weapons, HAIRSTYLES, etc. We'd be able to even make the dye colors for already existing clothes (boom, new mechanic, dying clothes).



We would then be able to just make the suggestion threads, give you the models and suggested stats, and then you just add them if you want to.
For starters, at least.

[stickman]

Hmm, the visitor gate thing was a change we queued up quite a while ago, so I must admit I don't remember the details, but the reason for it was because non-visitor-gates were being utilized in really sploity ways, that seemed worse than losing "airlocks", and a parallel world seemed like a good opportunity to see if we could get by without them (also because the distinction between gate types has always seemed ugly to me). I wish I could remember the exact reason, but I'm not finding it right now. If someone knows, please remind me. Otherwise, this is certainly not a change that we're wed to.

why dont u make it so if you have the permission you can just walkup to it, right click it and select ENTER GATE.. then you port to the other side of the door... so if you under attack you just run back to your base... click on the door and you port onto the other side of the wall ... and if its an animal in combat with you it gets disengaged so it will walk away... then there is no more need for complicated setups at all.... no keys nothing... might not be as realistic as you would like but would prevent hundreds of hermits not knowing how build a proper wall and will let villages with large amounts of new players be secure.

[Sevenless]

i dont understand the change to visitor gates. is this supposed to be a pro pker change?

imagine... you wake up before work... you gotta leave in 10 min... you go to the swamp or go check some hq resource spot to get some stuff to fill your study... someone attacks you...
normally you would just run back to your base... but now you cannot run back to base because you cannot go through you own gate.... the pker is probably better then you at running, your probably not getting away in 10 min... so you have no where to go... so i guess you just close the client and die if you need to go to work?

If i have no where to run I will probably litter claim and boats around everywhere.... but you guys still haven't fixed the ability to log out alts in other peoples boats... so the pker will probably already have an alt logged out in your snekja to prevent you from getting away. or they will have blockaded your boat in ahead of time anyway.

I think what will happen is instead of hermits going out on their mains they will only go out on throw away alts.

if i am interpreting this correctly his seems like a very anti hermit change.

Snail's made a good point to me in the past about airlocks and non-pvpers: Hermits don't know enough about running, and don't actually make the airlocks in the first place.

As for the actual pvp that happens, safepalis are pretty gross in how they're used offensively not just defensively. Someone just keeps coming into your area dropping claims until you miss one and it dries. Now the enemies have an airlock of their own a 5 minute run away that's effectively impossible to get rid of. What this will cause is more decisive pvp, since most airlock use/abuse is between pvp groups where both understand the wild and wonky combat system of haven. People who are good at pvp will like this, people who are bad at it will suffer. Factions are going to be more capable of "winning" against each other by knocking fighters out of combat safe HP levels.

None of this really matters to the random non-pvp shmuck. If you aren't putting time in learning to run, you're not making it to your airlock. Any defending your base against siege is all done by alts expecting to get KOed anyway.


That said, if we're doing everything Vgates people will want to leave them open for convenience. Could we stop animals pathing, being aggroed and aggroing through them? The stickfence safety gates are really annoying.

[Robben_DuMarsch]

Hmm, the visitor gate thing was a change we queued up quite a while ago, so I must admit I don't remember the details, but the reason for it was because non-visitor-gates were being utilized in really sploity ways, that seemed worse than losing "airlocks", and a parallel world seemed like a good opportunity to see if we could get by without them (also because the distinction between gate types has always seemed ugly to me). I wish I could remember the exact reason, but I'm not finding it right now. If someone remembers the exploit, please remind me. Otherwise, this is certainly not a change that we're wed to.

You've got that completely in reverse. There were several well known exploits using visitor gates. The cave mouth -> visitor exploit was fixed,.at least with a bandaid.

But what was never fixed was the honey trap vgate exploit. You let newbs wander in, aggro them, drop a piece of furniture they can't bypass to stop them from physically reaching you. They can't move it because of visitor debuff. They are functionally stuck until server crash it you keep them in aggro on the rage alt, unless they are smart enough to run an alt over which they can KO themselves (like with leeches) so they can steal from it to force a self-KO by reducing their SHP to 0. Obviously the most common outcome is someone comes and executes them.

Basically all major exploits with gates are vgate related, not regular gate.

[SnuggleSnail]

My understanding is that speed boots were implemented (at least on part) because, on paper, newbs would get most use out of them. But the obvious problems are:
1) how do you communicate to the newb that you need to pick up speed boosts?
2) how will a newb know how much it's worth to stray from the vector, leading directly away from the PK chasing them, to pick up one?

IMO, rabbit dungeon where you win by catching a rabbit or making it around a track fast enough or something. If you know how running works, it'd be pretty easy to force every key concept into a pretty short track. Get somebody who's extremely good at running to beta test it, and then balance it so that you have to be like 95% as fast as them to win. Give it a super dank reward everybody will want many of like a clover that's worth 200L of swill.

ngl I'd be happy to 1:1 design the running tutorial

truly the greatest exploit of our time is that you can trap people if they decide to give themselves visitor

[Robben_DuMarsch]

truly the greatest exploit of our time is that you can trap people if they decide to give themselves visitor

Do you need me to call an ambulance for that stroke?

[LemonNades]

Does this mean world 16.1 will be 6 months and then a world 17 or both will perish, then a true world 17?