Prelude: World 16.2

[scoffer]

If they really care about experimenting, they should just start two worlds at once, one with PvP and one without. The worst that could happen is some salty guys getting salty and coming back next year for the new world after pissing their shit out on the forum (which they do constantly, btw). This shit never changes.

[beansahol]

>"Without pvp you'll get griefed by hundreds of bot alts that claim every resource and block your path!"

>No, that's not possible or feasible, it's never happened in the history of the game and it never will. PvP is good but that's not why it's needed, think critically.

>"y-you're stupid!"

Honestly some of you are just retarded freaks. Use your words, think things through.

I guess If you are only ever on the losing end of PVP, the notion of conflict can seem self-defeating. But there exist some human beings with a developed motor cortex, allowing them usage of their hands. This enables them to move a mouse and press keys on a keyboard, while not accidentally turning their monitor off. And I believe you can do this too!

>PvP is good and should be in the game but this particular point you're making doesn't make sense

"This guy hates pvp and wants it removed!"

I don't understand why you're here if you can't read.

[Grumpkin]

There are just no opportunities to PvP when you are a casual hermit.
You develop this defeatist mindset and simply treat every player you meet as a threat. Yes, that's what J&L want. You know you are weak because you don't use bots 24/7.
I can understand why those players don't want to deal with it.

What can a casual hermit even do against a specialized fighter alt? Throw some punches for negative damage and then die? Show off my water drinking skills (and die) ?

[vatas]

Even if we assume that every PvP player is just being a crybully about how they can't use custom client to aggro every player on the screen, the w16.1 changes had two fundamental problems:
1) If merely unlocking the skill 'Rage' is going to have significant, permanent penalties, there needs to be a proper confirmation when unlocking it. Having some extra text in the skill description doesn't really count as proper warning.
2) Regardless of how heavy-handed/invasive a feature designed to help avoid PvP is going to be, it's useless if the targets being ganked don't even know it exists.

On paper, the "PvP players" took a fat steaming dump from Jorb. But in practice, they figured out how to make most of it. On the flip side there were people:
-Unlocking Rage, unaware of the consequences, and told to suicide their character if they want to "un-buy" Rage.
-Dying in the same ways as always, because they were unaware that their village gates possess a magical, invisible force field that will let them through (purely because they have no Rage) but won't let the attacker through (purely because they have Rage.)

[MightySheep]

If they really care about experimenting, they should just start two worlds at once, one with PvP and one without.

JORBTAR, I beg you hear my plea. No more ground can be ceded to these little FREAKS who are asking for "PVE worlds" and "offline Haven". They know not what they ask for. They think they know what they want, but they don't.

I fundamentally agree with this. The game needs PvP.

I'm not really sure how much more clear the devs can be than this. Why is it even still a discussion?

[Dev3ko]

I’d really like to see a mine rework. Since it doesn’t look like we’ll get more levels beyond -9 anytime soon, I’d suggest -1 stays the same, -2 becomes current -3, -3 current -4, -4 current -6, -5 current -7 and -6 current -9, while -7 to -9 could take the role of the "new" current -10 to -12. It’d also be nice to get a new ore type and have the minimum quality of ores/stones scale with the mine level, basically level ×10. Also, it’d be cool if the bulldozers spawning with stones/ores indicated that those resources can be found somewhere in the nearby walls, so they’d actually have a purpose. Deeper mines could also have higher quality water, which would make sense considering we already have "magic" for deepening wells to get better water. P.S. I was also thinking about the Smith credo, maybe allowing smiths to craft equipment from different metals with stats changing depending on the metal/alloy, kinda like alchemy, and at max level letting them combine metals into new alloys, and you could make something like a copper sword from a gold bar, giving more dmg but less durability and maybe + to one stat and - to another )It’s just an example)

[caz]

I’d really like to see a mine rework. Since it doesn’t look like we’ll get more levels beyond -9 anytime soon, I’d suggest -1 stays the same, -2 becomes current -3, -3 current -4, -4 current -6, -5 current -7 and -6 current -9, while -7 to -9 could take the role of the "new" current -10 to -12. It’d also be nice to get a new ore type and have the minimum quality of ores/stones scale with the mine level, basically level ×10. Also, it’d be cool if the bulldozers spawning with stones/ores indicated that those resources can be found somewhere in the nearby walls, so they’d actually have a purpose. Deeper mines could also have higher quality water, which would make sense considering we already have "magic" for deepening wells to get better water. P.S. I was also thinking about the Smith credo, maybe allowing smiths to craft equipment from different metals with stats changing depending on the metal/alloy, kinda like alchemy, and at max level letting them combine metals into new alloys, and you could make something like a copper sword from a gold bar, giving more dmg but less durability and maybe + to one stat and - to another )It’s just an example)

+1

[_Scipio]

"Haven is built around consequence."

Haven is built around no consequences. Murder everyone in sight, destroy every base you encounter, ruin everyone else' game simply because you are more powerful than they are ...there are no consequences.

No consequences? That's simply not true. Behold. Every world I've played, we've tracked, and killed outlaws. ( Moment of silence for catapult's nerfed ability to mete out Ainran justice in the hearth-lands. ) Your biggest bogeymen, the most skillful fighters, and the biggest stat grinders, have all suffered the consequence of their actions and been killed. Perhaps you have that perspective for not being on the other side.

You have the ability to oppose those you see are your oppressors, through playing the game, without needing to come to the forums and petition for deus ex machina intervention.

[rstar]

PvE players don't want the game to be dead so they can play a singleplayer offline game. The hardcore PvP permadeath nature of PvP in Haven does have its downsides. It's not perfect.
Imagine seeing a player icon rapidly approaching you on your minimap. What kind of feeling does that evoke?
A PvE world would make for a good experimental World. Maybe 16.2 is exactly that.

Ohh rakete!! Fuck!!! God!!! Why are you all so whiny!!! I’ll be the one to show you that feeling if I ever see you out there!!! Then you can tell me what it feels like!!!

Death is coming for you!!!! PvP always!!!!!!! PvE is for other games.

[Regulus2424]

I mean, is it really PVP if I don't consider my opponent a human being?