Prelude: World 16.2

[SnuggleSnail]

kinda funny the biggest proponents of removing PVP are always the most insufferable, low emotional control, retards that would 100% be griefing you in a PVE world right now if they could

[Audiosmurf]

I think some of these guys just have a humiliation fetish and jerk off to people calling them retards online I can scarcely imagine any other reason for someone to conduct themselves this way

[wolf1000wolf]

The reason the PvE-only supporters still post on these forums every time a world reset comes around isn't to argue with you griefers. You have a vested interest in keeping this game in its current state and resort to insults and foul language when your arguments are logically refuted.

Its for the minuscule chance jorbtar enacts changes.

Its to post something on the off-chance a new player reads this cesspool of a forum and provide a counterbalance to all the negativity.

With AI now, maybe someone will just clone/remake HnH without the PvP and we can see how it goes.

[Halbertz]

The reason the PvE-only supporters still post on these forums every time a world reset comes around isn't to argue with you griefers. You have a vested interest in keeping this game in its current state and resort to insults and foul language when your arguments are logically refuted.

Its for the minuscule chance jorbtar enacts changes.

Its to post something on the off-chance a new player reads this cesspool of a forum and provide a counterbalance to all the negativity.

With AI now, maybe someone will just clone/remake HnH without the PvP and we can see how it goes.

A sincere question: what don't you like about w16? With the current online population, it's literally a PvE world, with virtually zero chance of interaction with other players. Or do you want both lots of players online and only "proper" interaction?
I can understand those who want the single-player version of the game – they didn't have time to try everything, encountered a difficulty (PvP), and gave up (or never even started to play the game). Autism (the illness, not the internet kind) can also be a factor. I see no other reason to want to do this chore alone.

[Halbertz]

Maybe I am wrong but whole pve world idea looks like this:
Imagine Dota/League but you can't attack other champions/heroes and buildings. You can still run around the map, chat, farm neutral creeps, buy items and even group up with other players to run for rosh/nashor.
Does this sounds like a good game? I mean if you never managed to have a good match at regular one, it could be curious to test how it feels to get to max level and go kill the boss. Would you play this on regular basis? I don't think so.

[wolf1000wolf]

The reason the PvE-only supporters still post on these forums every time a world reset comes around isn't to argue with you griefers. You have a vested interest in keeping this game in its current state and resort to insults and foul language when your arguments are logically refuted.

Its for the minuscule chance jorbtar enacts changes.

Its to post something on the off-chance a new player reads this cesspool of a forum and provide a counterbalance to all the negativity.

With AI now, maybe someone will just clone/remake HnH without the PvP and we can see how it goes.

A sincere question: what don't you like about w16? With the current online population, it's literally a PvE world, with virtually zero chance of interaction with other players. Or do you want both lots of players online and only "proper" interaction?
I can understand those who want the single-player version of the game – they didn't have time to try everything, encountered a difficulty (PvP), and gave up (or never even started to play the game). Autism (the illness, not the internet kind) can also be a factor. I see no other reason to want to do this chore alone.

Having other players around for trade and co-op game play (group hunting, dungeons, large scale building) is important.

I like how you describe HnH as a "chore". Many systems in HnH do seem to devolve into that but different people have different tastes. I can't stand farming over the long run but some players I know love it.

And as to how a PvE world would be like DotA/LoL without PvP... For me, the fun parts of HnH have never been the combat. Its the building up of your base, trading with your neighbours and exploring the world in search of rare and exciting things.

I think part of the PvP supporters (like snail) know exactly what they're arguing for while others don't seem to get it. Snail wrote a short bit a few pages ago about how PvP in HnH is more like high stakes poker or the CIA murdering some democratically elected leader.

This is a problem. The balance of power is not equal. The potential losses are not equal either.

The PvP focused player has optimized their time and their investment in their character (in hours spent) is fairly low.

Meanwhile, a new player or just Larpy old player has spent their hours on farming, gathering forages and eating a variety of sub-optimal but fun sounding foods.

The PvP ganker risks little, gains little, but derives their satisfaction from ruining many hours of progress of their victim.

This extremely lopsided loss/reward is why so many PvE-only supporters say to just remove PvP all together.

[SnuggleSnail]

Meanwhile, a new player or just Larpy old player has spent their hours on farming, gathering forages and eating a variety of sub-optimal but fun sounding foods.

Kinda feel like you're misattributing blame on this one. Nobody is choosing to turn their piece of bear meat into +1 strength [LARP food] when they know +50 [meta food] exists. No normal human wants to generate or sort through so much data it's literally not possible without machine help and crowd sourcing to find good recipes.

The majority of the skill in the "industry" side of the game is not rly knowing how things work, it's knowing which 90% of the game to completely ignore because it's worthless for meta purposes. There are like 4 important crops, 1 important animal, and everything else except mining is bait to trick people into wasting their time.

This creates an enormous artificial divide between meta players and the majority, even if a large portion wants to be a meta player and it's just too confusing for them.

This is a problem. The balance of power is not equal. The potential losses are not equal either.

This is kurwa big real, though. 15 years of mechanics trying to protect LARPers has made me bored of my immortality, while I can still trick most hermits into drowning themselves, or find a half dozen bases per day with some dumb vulnerability to exploit

[_Scipio]

I feel like we're looping at this point.

The PvP ganker risks little, gains little

Disproven with earlier post with example of Janusz. He gained a q400 stone axe from some market enjoyer which he looted(then I looted it from him), but he also eventually lost his character. You can significantly upgrade your industry, increase your material wealth, or simply upgrade your gear by means of pvp.

This is a problem. The balance of power is not equal. The potential losses are not equal either.

They introduced equalization for MC/UA, you just to not get doubled for it to work. Why do you think you deserve parity of 'power' dues ex machina, the ability is yours already. This doesn't make sense to me. I think the potential losses are much greater for the ganker than the sprucecap.

The PvP focused player has optimized their time and their investment in their character (in hours spent) is fairly low.

Maybe if you live in a village and are supported by many others and contribute little yourself. But SOMEONE put the character hours and spent the time in order to make or do all the things that the 'PvP Character' 'better' than your hermit. The work was done one way or another.

[Grumpkin]

Maybe I am wrong but whole pve world idea looks like this:
Imagine Dota/League but you can't attack other champions/heroes and buildings. You can still run around the map, chat, farm neutral creeps, buy items and even group up with other players to run for rosh/nashor.
Does this sounds like a good game? I mean if you never managed to have a good match at regular one, it could be curious to test how it feels to get to max level and go kill the boss. Would you play this on regular basis? I don't think so.

Unlike League of Legends, Haven has so much PvE content that it can be enjoyed as a PvE-only game. Even LoL had PvE game modes like Swarm that were very popular.
Would players still enjoy Haven if it was reduced to a PvP-only game mode?
Make PvP fun for all participants and players will stop asking for it to be removed. It's very simple.

[scoffer]

The game forces new players who are either not interested in or simply not ready to play against people with years of experience in virtually every mechanic the game has to offer. Basically, in competitive gaming terms, from a new player's perspective, there are ~500 smurfs on the server.
And of course, the smurfs love their position in this hierarchy and would oppose any attempt to change the status quo.

Imagine that even EFT implemented PvE servers, and the results might surprise you. PvE server could act as a sandbox where new players could get accustomed to the game mechanics in a chill environment.
It's not enjoyable trying to learn the multiplication table when your math teacher is mentally unstable, maliciously staring you down with a B12 axe right in front of your desk.