Prelude: World 16.2

[Halbertz]

Unlike League of Legends, Haven has so much PvE content that it can be enjoyed as a PvE-only game. Even LoL had PvE game modes like Swarm that were very popular.
Would players still enjoy Haven if it was reduced to a PvP-only game mode?
Make PvP fun for all participants and players will stop asking for it to be removed. It's very simple.

Maybe, but not by much. We can even make a rough estimate:
1) Classic PvE ("battles" against monsters). Haven has several dozen monsters and animals to fight. However, most battles are fairly similar, with the following exceptions: mammoth (killed with a feature/exploit), troll (killed by swimming in a boat in a circle), and probably bear (can suddenly hug + rage). Everything else is killed by leading to water (or shore) and then outreach. If they removed this, it would just be killed in the face, but later with better stats and equipment.
2) Dungeons. Copypasta. There are probably only three unique features - the "riddle" in the bee dungeon, purple bats, and the fact that water works on beavers.
3) Character development. Finding meta food and farming the same ingredients. Same with LP. At some point you don't even need to leave the safety of the base.
4) Equipment. Essentially, there are two and a half types of weapons (three and a half, if you count r bow). Obtained the same way - by farming materials at the base. There's one type of armor. Everything else is just basic gear, worn until the mine can produce steel.
---
All of the above can be done solo in a single world, essentially completing the game. And all the so-called "PvE opponents" have long since done so. You might think Snail, for example, never planted anything or fed the pigs, but you're simply wrong. The thing is, it's not all this that keeps the "smurfs" in the game.
PvP adds that secret sauce to the game - you can quickly lose everything, or suddenly accelerate your progress incredibly. Fear and greed are genuine feelings that drive us to act, to worry, to form groups. Without them, there's only apathy. And apathy is death.

[MightySheep]

The reason the PvE-only supporters still post on these forums every time a world reset comes around isn't to argue with you griefers. You have a vested interest in keeping this game in its current state and resort to insults and foul language when your arguments are logically refuted.

Its for the minuscule chance jorbtar enacts changes.

Its to post something on the off-chance a new player reads this cesspool of a forum and provide a counterbalance to all the negativity.

With AI now, maybe someone will just clone/remake HnH without the PvP and we can see how it goes.

This forum would be a utopia without pve players though they are the 1s who spam it with the bitter oppressed outcries of downtrodden hermits

Nobody cares. It's boring. Jorb couldn't be more clear when he write "this game needs pvp" so why are u still flooding every thread with shit then ppl wonder why no real change got made u guys spammed 50 page of boring whining during the only moment jorb read forum. Go play ur ai game

[Chaboy30]

All this talk about the PvP that nobody participates in all while hunting is what's in actual need of a rework. Who gives a single shit about the PvP? It's broken and it will always be broken, especially since bug abuse and bot armies are encouraged and because the devs just give certain players q1000 items. Work on PvE instead, something people might actually appreciate and something most of the playerbase actually interacts with. We shouldn't have to cheese aggro spamming or overkill with a b12 to compensate for animals fleeing at lightspeed. Even adding something to prevent the lightspeed escape would be fucking huge for the game's enjoyment.

[yodasw]

It's pve game anyway. Pvp mechanic is only for griefing protection. If devs want to make from this is pvp game, they should rework awful combat system, rework awful siege system, reduce death penalty, reduce losted village penalty, add more players, and make server not dying when 10+ players are fighting. They do it? Nope. They add new bird.
We have a small online, that divided at 24h cycle. Everything, that you needed for pve - just sail on any edge of map and build there.
Have no idea what's wrong with guys, who likes pvp in h&h.

[Drnewton69]

I agree with sheep, Jorb was already very clear on his stance towards pvp, i wish the vocal minority that is the hermits that actually use this forum would stop trying to ruin one of few full loot pvp mmo's we have left (can count them on one hand) and go play one of the multitude of games that cater to your more PVE single player orientated preferences.

The way i see it your guys arguments asking to have PVP removed is essentially asking jorb&loftar to turn haven into an inferior version of games that already exist, it's the mix of casual industry jobs and high stakes pvp and inter kingdom warfare that makes haven special.

And as far is PVP itself goes i would say don't knock it till you actually give it a fair shake, and no I'm not talking about the handful of negative encounters you have experienced on the receiving end of sheep or snails blade, I'm talking about hopping in val and hopping in a VC with players that already know how to fight, do 1v1's 2v2's 3v3's 4v4's and ASK QUESTIONS drink,run,chase the whole nine yards and you'll be surprised by how fast you can learn.

I can already hear the hermit pvp naysayers already saying something along the lines of "thats way to gatekept" "how can i possibly find others to practice with" "i could never do that" the answer to all these questions is the same, haven is a SOCIAL MMO SO SOCIALIZE!!! you wouldn't expect to start playing EVE and instantly become the king of null-sec competing in PVP with the best of em, similar situation in a game like rust you wouldn't expect to join a server and instantly compete with the biggest zerg base on the map day one.

Haven is very much the same, the fun of the game very much is the community and friends you make along the way is PVP is very much a big part of that fun, the adversity caused by pvp is what brings many players in many villages together, would be a real shame to lose that.

Just as a final note i wanted to expand on the IT"S A SOCIAL MMO SO SOCIALIZE idea, that you don't even have to be combat orientated player, i know plenty of villages that would be happy to get another tree autist or silk freak, these villages have players that do enjoy PVP and will usually come to your aid just for the fun of it, once again you just have to talk to the people around you, if talking to people and making in-game relationships with other players is too much for you i suggest you play another game

[stchristopher]

One thing that would satisfy me would to have two servers, one PVE and one PVP and we can see which one players prefer. I know splitting playerbases isn't nice but as an experiment that way Jorb and Loftar can see what the core playerbase actually gravitate to. I personally think it's a minority of PVP enjoyers and not PVE ones. I think a lot of the PVE players stay away from the forums so the vocal one isn't representative of what the actual amount of PVE players would be.

[stchristopher]

Just as a final note i wanted to expand on the IT"S A SOCIAL MMO SO SOCIALIZE idea, that you don't even have to be combat orientated player, i know plenty of villages that would be happy to get another tree autist or silk freak, these villages have players that do enjoy PVP and will usually come to your aid just for the fun of it, once again you just have to talk to the people around you, if talking to people and making in-game relationships with other players is too much for you i suggest you play another game

I do this every world and gain friends along the way, they have zero chance against big villages who solely focus on PVP. And none of the big groups are interested in protecting sprucecap hermits, been here long enough to know that. Also, how could they unless they actually join inside the walls of the big village? The mechanic in this game does not favor hermits in this sense, numbers and stats do.

[SnuggleSnail]

You should rly go back and read world 6/7/8/9 forum threads. It's INSANE how far the average opinion on PVP has moved. if you send Animary back to 2018 two dozen euros would be threatening to lynch her in the street within 5 posts.

It's probably hard to tell from the outside, but it seems pretty clear to me why the game has bled so many PVPers.

I mean, there's a lot more abstract hard to concisely explain stuff as well, but like:

• there were 1.5 entire worlds where PVP literally didn't work because every client was crashing about once per minute https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LtZ-ZB0mh7Y
• Since I started playing in world 10 there has probably been about 1-2 years worth of time there was no public PVP viable client
• Probably another 2 years where ard bootleg was PVP viable, but still crashed a lot
• 1/4th or 1/8 of the time or whatever it is rn PVP is literally not part of the game because winter
• you basically need to be NEET now (and be in a team of NEETs) to start/get to fights because travel is so bad, and everybody is so far away
• zero new PVP content since world 10 I think(?)

It's actually crazy like 20-40 people are still interested in PVP after receiving all this domestic violence tbh

[Drnewton69]

Just as a final note i wanted to expand on the IT"S A SOCIAL MMO SO SOCIALIZE idea, that you don't even have to be combat orientated player, i know plenty of villages that would be happy to get another tree autist or silk freak, these villages have players that do enjoy PVP and will usually come to your aid just for the fun of it, once again you just have to talk to the people around you, if talking to people and making in-game relationships with other players is too much for you i suggest you play another game

I do this every world and gain friends along the way, they have zero chance against big villages who solely focus on PVP. And none of the big groups are interested in protecting sprucecap hermits, been here long enough to know that. Also, how could they unless they actually join inside the walls of the big village? The mechanic in this game does not favor hermits in this sense, numbers and stats do.

All i can say is shop H4D 16.2 if your chill/cool we might take you and your guys on board

[Regulus2424]

Team, congrats on the 500 posts.