Prelude: World 16.1

[vipes]

As a PvEer I'm glad there's PvP in the game. No risk = no reward = no fun.

Doesn't mean there's no room for change. I'd still love to get rid of stuff like fast travel, botting / alt spam and custom client abuse.

[_Scipio]

I won't speak for anybody else, but this is my situation. I've spent multiple worlds grouped with people right from the start, took part in PvP, took part in group projects, it was okay, but I'd rather play by myself tbh.
I don't particularly like PvP in this game because it's so skewed in the favour of the team with more numbers and seeing as how I either play by myself (which is what I've been doing the past 3 worlds) or with people who are more casual than me and who play far less, the PvP experiences I've had have been quite dull. I spent 1 world with a big well-known village and took part in a few big fights that world but they were cluster fucks. Laggy as shit, big groups running back and forth building coins for what seemed like most of the fight and barely interacting at all.
To put it bluntly, the PvP in this game is ass. The only thrilling thing about it is the whole permadeath thing, because even the looting part is normal for me, I've played plenty of games with better PvP that allowed you to full loot the people you beat.

That being said if I had it my way I wouldn't want a PvE server, I'd rather we just had a bigger map so you can soft opt-out of dealing with the bigger villages (which is the main issue because I have 0 chance of fighting them, so naturally I don't want to interact with them) by moving to one of the far corners.
The best worlds we've had in this game are the ones where everyone isn't cramped into a tiny map. In the past we still had plenty of close-knit communities who purposefully built near their allies or people they wanted to interact with just fine, even on the bigger maps, but the people who wanted to see people rarely could wander off in a direction for a few hours then not see many people for ages.
First world when this 3D version of Haven first came out, I wandered in 1 direction for like 8 hours before I set up base. I never saw a single other person in the 2 months I played. Not one. That map was probably a little too big for some, but I think we should go back to bigger maps over these small ones we've been getting where you can't wander for 5 minutes without seeing a base.

For this new world I hope we just get a bigger map, but my worry is that they'll deduce that because it's a world that has a shorter life cycle they may opt to make it tiny again like this one in which case I won't be playing it long either because I can't stand the map for this world, worst one we've ever had by far.

I'm starting to doubt you're actually playing the game.

The w16 map is already huge. In this thread already there has been testimony of exactly what you're wanting a 'soft opt out' and security through obscurity by way of moving away from spawn continents.

With the new map it should be dramatically smaller. We're splitting the playerbase and lacking the fanfare of a new world hype.

[Rebs]

Fun fact, Arc raiders was only PvE in 2019 but the game got boring quick and lack meaningful reasons to actually play, they did not know if adding pvp was going to improve this but they found that it added re-playability, additional risk + reward and the dopamine you got from winning fights and extracting with loot was so much better then any pve content. Yes Arc raiders was meant to be a co-op pve game.

Food for thought for those PvE worlders. in fact all the new brain dead arguments for PvE servers in arc raiders creates similar parallels to haven for me, and the more PvE only focused we get the quicker people quit each world.

There is so many people wishing these y.x worlds to be more pve experimental, where initially I thought the plan was to make these chaotic pvp worlds, the point in resetting them every 3-6 months was to put everyone back on the even playing field for pvp again. Make sieging and raiding quicker/easier, make murdering/dying easier. I want a world where everyone is crab bucketing each other so much that no one gets to steel.

[Rebs]

I don't rly think it's a useful argument to have. Jorbtar have clearly decided they want the game to have some form of PVP, it's like the only thing that's been consistent over the course of like 15 years.

That said, I really struggle to imagine long term play being interesting in haven without PVP. You build your base in 1-4 weeks, and then what? Raise the quality of your carrots indefinitely? You can kill a bear or a troll with 50 strength and then the PVE side of the game is kindof over.

Maybe it would be fun for people who are new or bad, since maybe a bear or a troll presents a challenge to you if you're not experienced, but the problem with that is inexperienced people eventually become experienced people. An MMO with nothing to motivate you to keep playing longer than one month seems very... Stupid?

also +1, my thoughts exactly. good snail.

[Schwarzvald]

I don't rly think it's a useful argument to have. Jorbtar have clearly decided they want the game to have some form of PVP, it's like the only thing that's been consistent over the course of like 15 years.

That said, I really struggle to imagine long term play being interesting in haven without PVP. You build your base in 1-4 weeks, and then what? Raise the quality of your carrots indefinitely? You can kill a bear or a troll with 50 strength and then the PVE side of the game is kindof over.

Maybe it would be fun for people who are new or bad, since maybe a bear or a troll presents a challenge to you if you're not experienced, but the problem with that is inexperienced people eventually become experienced people. An MMO with nothing to motivate you to keep playing longer than one month seems very... Stupid?

Multiplayer PvE survival sims are a proven concept. Do you think games like stranded deep are boring and pointless? If so it’s just not for you. There’s many this style of gameplay appeals to. Haven is perfect to make the transition to this style of game, especially with its entirely player driven world building.

A world that persists. A persistent PvP world doesn’t work due to Balance issues. Accounts a year plus in age, even farmers, will absolutely crush any fresh join. This is not an issue in the optional PvE space.

Again the PvP server can persist and be free to play. If they’re considering running two it’s a valid experiment at least once.

That said, I really struggle to imagine long term play being interesting in haven without PVP. You build your base in 1-4 weeks, and then what?

They are going to create cool communites and build mega projects!
Ofc, no, they won't. Most people requesting a PvE server are solo players or small groups who have never been interested in building relationships with anyone in this game.).

They do. Every world. Those community markets/centers are often infiltrated and destroyed. Then those players typically hang it up for the world afterward until reset. lol

Again the game can persist as it is and be developed in the direction it has been for the past 15ish years on server one, but with another product offering on server 2.

@whoever-Arc or whatever is a third person extraction shooter. Whether it was PvE or PvP it’s a Terrible comparison.

Haven has such a unique persistent world building element.

[Crest]

The w16 map is already huge.

It isn't. It's objectively one of the smallest maps we've had.
I posted the image around 10 pages back of all the areas you can spawn. I traversed it all myself. There's nowhere on that map that a base isn't a short walk away from, which is nothing like some of the previous maps we've had where there were huge areas completely devoid of life.

[SnuggleSnail]

Multiplayer PvE survival sims are a proven concept. Do you think games like stranded deep are boring and pointless?

I think raft might've been the most fun in a game I've had as an adult. Still only played it for about 20 hours, and will probably never touch it again.

Haven could probably get shoddily converted to co-op and be the worst friendslop game on steam nobody plays for more than 20 hours. Seems like that would be an absolutely retarded way to take an MMO, though.

Imagine this shit trying to compete with minecraft, or the forest, or valhiem. LMAO

[Rebs]

@whoever-Arc or whatever is a third person extraction shooter. Whether it was PvE or PvP it’s a Terrible comparison.

Clearly it went over your head. I was not saying they are same game I am saying that the arguments from PvEers are the same and the problem is the same, people complaining about pvp and wanting a pve world when they pivoted from co-op pve because it was boring literally following the thought pattern of what snail said, pve will get stale as soon as you go through the content much like the issue that arc raiders had, there is no one to slow you down, there is no loss in progression, just a->b->quit, dust your hands off, move on to the next game. This is a MMO, intended to be played for longer then just "I have done the content" stranded deep for example, once you complete the game whats the point in going back to it, you have done everything. move on. I would hazard a guess that the majority of people who come back year on year for haven have completed the content and are only looking for the rush of the early world WHERE PVP IS AT ITS HIGHEST and NOT "I CANT WAIT TO MAKE LEATHER AGAIN MY GOD".

Go back to playing stranded deep.

Also someone mentioned that Rust/cryrofall/ARK has PVE servers and my god, whoever plays those games PvE are really missing the point of those games.. Who the hell plays rust PvE?

I can not believe how many of these PvE-ers come back for the early world to complain about pvp but never play later world its ironic. Late world haven is PvE. And I love the fact that we see huge numbers on world start+1 month in, and for some reason people come to the conclusion that PVP is the problem for drop when the conclusion clearly is "Everyone comes back for the choas and the rush, then drop off when pvp threat is no longer there", Now just imagine for me, if that chaos and rush of the early game was felt whenever you make a new character and that is achieved with MORE PVP not less.

Its also so ironic that people mentioned rust, like bruh you think rust is so popular because they can hit stones and cut trees? What the hell are we even talking about here!

We should be seeing MORE Choas in these y.x world. Remove walls, remove claims, let us all run around stabbing eachother with no safety net to hide from your criminal acts, new characters every day.

You know back in the day if you got you base bashed by someone, there was a possibility you could find them, and while they sleep with their character afk in world you can get your own back. Those days are long gone and I want them back.

[Schwarzvald]

Multiplayer PvE survival sims are a proven concept. Do you think games like stranded deep are boring and pointless?

I think raft might've been the most fun in a game I've had as an adult. Still only played it for about 20 hours, and will probably never touch it again.

Haven could probably get shoddily converted to co-op and be the worst friendslop game on steam nobody plays for more than 20 hours. Seems like that would be an absolutely retarded way to take an MMO, though.

Imagine this shit trying to compete with minecraft, or the forest, or valhiem. LMAO

There’s been about 100ish players online for months before the new world announcement, right? How much PvP has been going on in that time?

The game reverts into the PvE state near its demise when everyone else gets bored and quits, and the only people left are struggling to maintain base systems often single handed. An attractive playstyle late game for some is to just hermit away siphoning things from decaying villages. Villages nobody conquered, but people just got bored maintaining lol.

Point is these people are effectively PvEing and investing hundreds of hours into the game regardless of wipes. Easy transition into a persistent world of that for them.

go back to

relax guy

[Qcua]

Multiplayer PvE survival sims are a proven concept. Do you think games like stranded deep are boring and pointless?

I think raft might've been the most fun in a game I've had as an adult. Still only played it for about 20 hours, and will probably never touch it again.

Haven could probably get shoddily converted to co-op and be the worst friendslop game on steam nobody plays for more than 20 hours. Seems like that would be an absolutely retarded way to take an MMO, though.

Imagine this shit trying to compete with minecraft, or the forest, or valhiem. LMAO

There’s been about 100ish players online for months before the new world announcement, right? How much PvP has been going on in that time?

The game reverts into the PvE state near its demise when everyone else gets bored and quits, and the only people left are struggling to maintain base systems often single handed. An attractive playstyle late game for some is to just hermit away siphoning things from decaying villages. Villages nobody conquered, but people just got bored maintaining lol.

Point is these people are effectively PvEing and investing hundreds of hours into the game regardless of wipes. Easy transition into a persistent world of that for them.

go back to

relax guy

I don’t think it’s worth trying to explain smth to snail. Recently he has been acting like a weirdo. Kind of Ed Gein persona of haven, living within his own world