Game Development: Prelude

[dvsmasta]

Now we start to get somewhere.

Given that some play with only one character (instead of an adult army) the delay might feel a bit harsh, but ok.

How do you come up with the 20-30% skill loss (I take it you mean skills and attributes), and do I get you right that you see the current system (40-70% skill loss) as to punishing?

I think its fair where its at however I still think that it should be less punishing then 40-70% ( people would more willing to keep playing after death)

As for the delay I think its fair at 6 hours.

I dont see the problem with the death atm, it is a permadeath game after all. Inheritance and burial already softens that blow. As someone that plays one account, having a time punishment for dying would end my nightly game play and waste subscription time also. If i died at the start of my gaming session for the night or the day on a weekend, it would suck, but i could start again immediately with the available free time i set aside to play. If i was punished on top of that (even if the death stat loss was less severe) with being unable to play for even 2 hours let alone 6, I would be more likely to stop playing all together. This could make alt accounts and botting even more common...but *shrug* just my 2cents

lol - So you are not okay with loosing 2 to 6 hours of gameplay that night but perfectly fine with loosing the past gameplay time when loosing 30-70% of stats.
You sir are a small percentage of gamers indeed.

[bmjclark]

They also couldn't possibly get to the level of subscribers if they didn't pay before because they were limited by time. Doesn't really change much.

so Hafen is pay 2 win from the start, yes?

The games effectively pay to play, with a trial. Calling haven pay to win is about as logical as calling WoW pay to win because you have a trial that goes to lvl 20 and need to pay a subscription to get past that. Havens payment model is far more forgiving than most in that it does give you a trial that you can experience the entire game on.

Edit: I didn't refresh the page before posting this and didn't see the 2 pages since i last posted, ill stop posting about this now

[smileyguy4you]

lol - So you are not okay with loosing 2 to 6 hours of gameplay that night but perfectly fine with loosing the past gameplay time when loosing 30-70% of stats.
You sir are a small percentage of gamers indeed.

it would hurt to loose my char not perfectly fine with it, but it is what i signed up for when i decided to play a permadeath game...pretty sure the subset of gamers that want a permadeath game is a small percentage too, trying to move a game sold on permadeath away from that is taking it out of the niche that makes it what it is again IMO

[Granger]

Don't forget that there planing on changing the payment model. Also people making alt accounts will never end.

Please keep in mind that they explicitly stated that nothing is set in stone and asked for a discussion about how that stuff could be handled in the future.

Please stop the pay 2 something discussion, that horse has already been beaten to pulp with the result of barely anyone in favor of being able to buy gains in the game.

[Ramki]

Don't forget that there planing on changing the payment model. Also people making alt accounts will never end.

Please keep in mind that they explicitly stated that nothing is set in stone and asked for a discussion about how that stuff could be handled in the future.

Please stop the pay 2 something discussion, that horse has already been beaten to pulp with the result of barely anyone in favor of being able to buy gains in the game.

I never said anything about p2w or p2p. I'm just trying too suggest a system people can be happy with.

[Granger]

I never said anything about p2w or p2p. I'm just trying too suggest a system people can be happy with.

That was aimed at bmjclark who fell a bit back...

[Shrapnelx]

Who the fuck paid all these clowns to show up and start arguing for the level cap?

Its a stupid system, no amount of arguing will change that fact..

Hafen has always been unlimited progression, a constant need to better your character, and now its capped because of the payment model, which is completely unacceptable.

Next Monday better be a patch to fix this horseshit, because capped leveling means i might as well go back to playing 'normal' MMOs..

[Granger]

Next Monday better be a patch to fix this horseshit, because capped leveling means i might as well go back to playing 'normal' MMOs..

To quote someone else:

I'm sorry you feel that way, and good day to you.

[senx]

Just a few thoughts

an alter in each world with possible world wipes every six months will kill the want to come back. Took me nearly six months to finally flatten out my village. The thought of having to do that each time is not an element of the game that makes me feel all exited to redo.

I like playing as a hermit, I tried being part of a village and didn't care for it. I hated the fact that they wanted me as a forager or a just a cook . I want to experience all parts of the game not just specialize in one part of it. So it's a hermits life for me.

If constant world resets need to part of the game maybe let us reset back to or prior village

example - Every 365 days in game everyone gets summoned to Valhalla to have a duel to the death. Winner get a token for their village. (ex. scarecrow that adds 10% faster growth rate, Golden Cow that speeds the process of milk production.)The token once taken back has a beacon that everyone can find so they can try to attack and steal for their own village..

After the Great battle everyone ports back to their Village\HF. Base attributes reset, maybe 30% of what the had before or all back to 10. Abilities don't change so farming mining etc... can continue.

[MagicManICT]

Sorry I only just saw this Jorbs/Loftar and I dont comment much... but this... well i need to comment on this… (BTW to be clear - I am not happy about the plans for the new world) - unless the plans change you wont get more $ from my family.

Your new model might work, but I doubt it. Limiting a toon to 200 max - limits the end game - I already had 300 str - and it was needed to be able to "scratch stone" in the mine. Even if you balance rock/metal... to align to the 200 cap it will reduce interest in the pure open ended nature of your previous versions of the game.

I invested in hopes that you guys would figure it out, I truly doubt you will see success with a capped skill model - with this type of "capped" play. Sandbox inherently should be sandbox - ie no limits no caps. That is exactly why I dont play WOW and other similar "cap" script games and the unlimited nature is why I did play this game. Maybe you could set it to 30 hours a week for free- maybe you just set the hours too low. Dev's... I get you want to monetize (and probably need to) but maybe the paid people could get other benefits... (and I hate whiners that dont give solutions so here are a few ideas)

Alternate ideas (could be bundled or separate ITEMS) not all are necessarily good - i am just throwing these out there.
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* no cap on paid - cap on free unlimited? (with the extra features being specific $ or one time $???) or maybe unpaid gets a LP "drain" the world drains you and paid doesn’t so gain would be slower and harder at higher but little impact at low levels - maybe combined stats = drain if you are unpaid? "weight of the world" type thing
* paid gives you respawn of some or all stats on death based on paid vs unpaid (3x and low paid and 9x at high paid) and unpaid gets little or none (or maybe %'s) – this could be an object that carries skill from the toon to the next toon in the bloodline – or could go to ANY other toon – life totem? (could be item or come with paid toon). Alternately an amulet that reflect skills from experience back to the PAID toon 1% at bronze, 2% at silver and 3% at gold? (or something like that)
* paid gives you ability to create a trade hub - unpaid cant create trade hub (anyone can go to one)
* paid can ride horses - unpaid cant or paid toons can tame horses unpaid cant
* paid accounts can make ropes faster or other "make item" things go faster for paid
* scrying ball for paid toons that allows wandering at high speed so you could scour map quickly (but limited uses or limited time) maybe uses energy - or are ITEMS that could be stolen or traded?
* x number of terraforming cubes that can move huge amounts of earth (balanced against manual performance)
* large "fluff" items like a dragon or demon or whatever that would "watch over" a village - but just be cosmetic / cool bling
* custom looking bling armor not available to unpaid
* special buildings only for paid (still would allow people to function)
* implement small pets - you could tame wolves to get dogs but ONLY for paid accounts
* maybe a "paid toon" - participant robe that gives an extra row of inventory (only wearable by paid accounts)
* paid account allows a personal claim changes the ICON on the map
* paid account has a slot for 1 claim to allow 1 more study slot - unpaid doesnt get the slot
* paid account upgrades a personal or village claim - slight increase in walk speed inside the claim for friends (maybe even select-able)
* paid account 5% increase in luck? (finding stuff - fate items ... not too % but some)
* paid account user can transform "form" to wolf or cat or bear - (doesn’t affect attack or only slightly or affects speed) unpaid cant
* Paid account can select silly bling like "glow" or "dark aura" - no effect just "cool"
* paid account gets mood music if chosen like aura - no effect just "cool"
* paid toons get funky night vision
* maybe paid account people look slightly different (elves vs humans? or simpler looking vs royal)
* paid toons can change what they look like (face/body)
* Paid toons can SELECT look of buildings - unpaid have to select materials to get color combos
* paid toons can PAINT buildings and walls and such - unpaid cannot
* paid toons can specify a new toon spawn point - unpaid cannot
* paid toons get healed by the TreeEnt things - unpaid don’t
* paid toons can create specialty furniture – chairs and tables
* paid toons can create specialty clothes
* paid toons can create specialty household items more bling; paintings; rugs; beds vases
* paid toons can speed up farming (or that could be a specific $ skill that could be paid for an account)
* paid toons can meditate to recover energy quicker w/less drain; or they just lose less energy

Consider selling in game items to bring in revenue (or could be combined to get people to go from silver to bronze to gold??)
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* ITEM: "skill knife" that levels = to survival (paid item that can be stolen - maybe unlimited or 10,000 uses or even multiple versions at various $ levels)
* Item and/or account feature: paid accounts start with flint/steel unlimited uses (can be stolen) or you can only make the unlimited ones if you are Paid or this can be an in-game "item for sale"
* ITEM: teleport stones or something funky that would not be overpowering but would give advantage (can be stolen/traded in game)
* ITEM: special symbel item (that could be stolen) that increases FEP % (not crazy but still nice for new toons)
* ITEM: special rings or broach or something that has bling like effect – cool but not too overpowering –
* ITEM: farmer hat that speeds farming
* ITEM: miner hat that protects from cave-in and speeds mining
* ITEM: amulet or ring or broach - that ups quality point by 1% or only 5 points or something.
* ITEM: glow sphere that lights up a mine better or lets you see into the walls for metal but only for limited time or limited depth


Other ideas on just general gameplay
* add filter device: cloth + charcoal can create water filter to improve it (or similar)
* add throwers trough "device": higher clay can be made from dirt + bone + water (or similar)
* traps– some way for hermits to protect themselves
* towers – that give ranged weapon increase % for all toons in them (think guard tower) again a bit of protection for hermits
* tame dogs from wolves that would fight with toon or would protect camp (maybe ONLY inside claim)


If I think of more I will post.

The numbers will tell. You have a plan and it wont change, based on our feedback.

If the numbers go up - you are right.
If the numbers stay the same or go down - your idea of level capping will be proven wrong and you will need to change your plans.

I believe it will fail - or give you roughly what you have now - and worse it will move you closer to being a "me too" of WoW or WURM and all the others.

You have an opportunity to do it different. I suggest you review the alternatives I posted above and other great ideas I have seen elsewhere in posts.

The game has been a blast - but at this point its wait and see.

I hope it turns out you are successful.