Game Development: Seated in Valhalla

[Ardennesss]

I'm not sure this a system that can be changed in a way that won't impact innocent players negatively. The issue is how easy it is to build these safe palis, and the lack of a penalty for using them. There's pros and cons to any change you could put in place, and the pros and cons always vary on which side it's going to benefit and who it's going to hurt.

Current system: Group runs into safe pali they own, visitor debuff prevents anyone from following in.

Proposed Change : Gate is visitor coded (such as Community Fair) innocent players are now guaranteed to be ganked due to their inability to run to safety in these areas. If you aggro someone outside, they're toast. Safe Palis will just switch their gates to not visitor coded, and carry keys. Upon running in to your safe pali, they can just close the door behind whoever follows them in - where they are either outnumbered, or more people are potentially hiding in the house to pop out and down them. Not to mention the risk of building catapults inside these safe palis now, making it even more unsafe to follow them in because you risk being downed and catapulted to death.

The problem is how easy these PClaims are to drop, how cheap they are to maintain, and how difficult they are to remove.
This issue will probably require a reexamination of personal claims, or the siege system, to resolve. Back in Legacy you just dropped a ram, and eventually you'd find a window of time where it wasn't checked and you could break in and take it over. I'm not going to invest the current amount of siege time it takes, to remove a safe pali that can be rebuilt a day later by someone who spends the 5 minutes neccessary to build a palisade and a pclaim.

[DatSheep]

All this technical talk of gates and aggroing has left me confused lol.

Very nice hat, probs will buy. Also scarab curio looks hella cute, gj. The snail chairs are sick too lmao, maybe do more agricultural furniture in the future such as the giant turnip? Doesnt have to be all chairs, let's see a table or idk a bench at some point.

[azrid]

I know I said I wouldn't be opposed to implementing it, but I was expecting more blowback. I mean, surely you must agree that it would be frustrating to have to wait every time you want to pass gates even in civilian circumstances?

As long as there are 2 different gate types it should be fine.
No timer for the visitor gate and a timer for the regular gate.

Its a flawless plan.

[kimjungskill]

I'm not sure this a system that can be changed in a way that won't impact innocent players negatively. The issue is how easy it is to build these safe palis, and the lack of a penalty for using them. There's pros and cons to any change you could put in place, and the pros and cons always vary on which side it's going to benefit and who it's going to hurt.

Current system: Group runs into safe pali they own, visitor debuff prevents anyone from following in.

Proposed Change : Gate is visitor coded (such as Community Fair) innocent players are now guaranteed to be ganked due to their inability to run to safety in these areas. If you aggro someone outside, they're toast. Safe Palis will just switch their gates to not visitor coded, and carry keys. Upon running in to your safe pali, they can just close the door behind whoever follows them in - where they are either outnumbered, or more people are potentially hiding in the house to pop out and down them. Not to mention the risk of building catapults inside these safe palis now, making it even more unsafe to follow them in because you risk being downed and catapulted to death.

The problem is how easy these PClaims are to drop, how cheap they are to maintain, and how difficult they are to remove.
This issue will probably require a reexamination of personal claims, or the siege system, to resolve. Back in Legacy you just dropped a ram, and eventually you'd find a window of time where it wasn't checked and you could break in and take it over. I'm not going to invest the current amount of siege time it takes, to remove a safe pali that can be rebuilt a day later by someone who spends the 5 minutes neccessary to build a palisade and a pclaim.

Was just about to write this exact thought. The problem I see with most of the proposed changes is that they involve some sort of negative impact to non-pvp players.

I know I said I wouldn't be opposed to implementing it, but I was expecting more blowback. I mean, surely you must agree that it would be frustrating to have to wait every time you want to pass gates even in civilian circumstances?

As long as there are 2 different gate types it should be fine.
No timer for the visitor gate and a timer for the regular gate.

Its a flawless plan.

Definitely not a flawless plan for the exact reason above. You teleport to some public area (like CF), someone decides to gank you as you come in from the roadsign/milestone, you can't run inside.

Also if I wasn't clear before, having timers on gates would be a huge pain in the ass for regular use. People can larp on their own time.

[azrid]

Trade alts have been a thing since legacy. Its also easy to raise your charisma so you can charter across the world.
Noobs will get ganked regardless of what kind of gate systems we have. You get aggrod right now and KOd inside CF. Even worse if you decide to afk in CF and get rekt by lured animals.
This gate idea is many times better than what we have right now.

[Granger]

Just keep gates as they are and just make them block red-handed characters currently in combat, track by which character combat was initiated and skip scent generation from combat for characters that just defend themselves (thus no red-handed for characters that don't initiate combat - even if they win over, and possibly kill, the aggressor).

Solves ganking outside marktets (as the victim could flee inside while the aggressor couldn't follow) and would in general make the decision of initiating combat more interesting, compared to everyone just running auto-aggro scripts (I suspect this 'tradition' of PvP oriented players hasn't changed over the last half dozend worlds).

[LostJustice]

I read through this an I agree with a lot of what people are saying here and sort of what the Devs are saying. The point is that there is a solution but I have to say it is disconnected from the actual problem. The issue isn’t the tuning of the safe palis, the issue is that these shouldn’t even exist there to begin with. And two different gate types? Really? You give them the option to build safe palis or not, which one do you think they are going to pick?

Only reasonable option I have seen so far is to not allow aggressors into the safe pali if they are in combat and redhanded. This makes sense since the community of people who want to enjoy things like CF and formerly Aurora can enter gates and continue as they were and people who PvP will be more cautious about initiating PvP with people since if they are initiating they should expect not to be able to run to a safe pali and give defendants to actually respond, track them and use scents (oh they might actually be useful now) and confront them.

This solution overall doesn’t solve the problem though. Safe palis are safe palis and they continue to exist.

[ctopolon4]

1 run throw gate(in combat & owner) = -6k shield & 50% HHP & outlaw
=>
speed up raid if defenders cant beat up raiders
one villager would be able to run in (while in combat) only once in few hrs. he will be dead if do it few times in a row.
village members could track him and kill/banish if it was intended for raid.

edit. mb just debuff "battlefield fugitive" (cd 2-12hrs, 2 times in a row = KO outside)

[loftar]

Definitely not a flawless plan for the exact reason above. You teleport to some public area (like CF), someone decides to gank you as you come in from the roadsign/milestone, you can't run inside.

How would you be helped by running inside as it currently stands? If they've initiated combat outside, the combat relation still stands inside the CF gates.

[Ardennesss]

Definitely not a flawless plan for the exact reason above. You teleport to some public area (like CF), someone decides to gank you as you come in from the roadsign/milestone, you can't run inside.

How would you be helped by running inside as it currently stands? If they've initiated combat outside, the combat relation still stands inside the CF gates.

Arguably, running inside greatly increases your odds of receiving help for your plight. Plus, if you have a stall at CF you can just duck into your pclaim owned house.