A Plea for Moderation

[Man-o-War]

im not sure who this kaios fellow is but it seems like all the recent drama has tempered down a little and he is the only one trying hard to keep it alive

i dont ever really post here but i read around the time of new world announcements and i felt compelled to pop in and urge everybody to just ignore as they seem like the kind of person who must receive some kind of weird gratification from the negative attention

very strange behavior!

[NecklessVirgin]

Dearest Haven and Hearth Community,

It’s clear even just from this thread what this forum has become. Violent, disagreeable discourse in every thread. Non-stop petty mudslinging from factional griefers. Alternate troublemaking accounts running amuck.

I therefore must put forth my own gauntlet towards the title of Moderator. As to my qualifications, I have personally administrated over 9000 ( ) internet forums and chatrooms. I am also extremely neutral in all issues; I have been rejected and mocked by both confusingly identical “Official Haven and Hearth Discord Server”s for my calm demeanor and rational disposition. Who better than one such as myself, to serve the ends of classy and intellectual discussion in these hallowed halls.

Please Consider,
-Kyle

[joojoo1975]

Man, I cannot wait till Nov 1st, then these forums will be dead silent again. . . well at least for a few days

[Austinh15]

Man, I cannot wait till Nov 1st, then these forums will be dead silent again. . . well at least for a few days

T-Then what is the purpose of a forum? This is the receptacle for yap. Also people will start talking EVEN MORE when world drops, trust me.

[joojoo1975]

Naw, when the world drops, unless something breaks. These forums will be a ghost town for the first week or two

[Kaios3]

Does anyone doubt if Vatas actually did even a quarter of what Jorb has done in the past few days they'd immediately start relentlessly harassing him too?

So true. Initially I felt bad that jorb is the one always having to deal with this stuff but in all honesty he brings it upon himself by choosing to ignore the most blatant trolling and doxxing from the same users over and over again.

It really lends credence to the death threat accusation when they so quickly and easily jump directly to personal attacks such as using real life pictures because they can’t handle some online banter.

Consider for a moment that these same people keep asking to be a moderator. What if one of these people actually became a moderator on this forum and had access to IP information, what might they do? Scary thought. Becoming a mod entails access to private information, and if someone abuses that authority to do whatever they want with that private information I can guarantee at least one thing; jorb and loftar will not care in the slightest.

[noindyfikator]

Does anyone doubt if Vatas actually did even a quarter of what Jorb has done in the past few days they'd immediately start relentlessly harassing him too?

So true. Initially I felt bad that jorb is the one always having to deal with this stuff but in all honesty he brings it upon himself by choosing to ignore the most blatant trolling and doxxing from the same users over and over again.

It really lends credence to the death threat accusation when they so quickly and easily jump directly to personal attacks such as using real life pictures because they can’t handle some online banter.

Consider for a moment that these same people keep asking to be a moderator. What if one of these people actually became a moderator on this forum and had access to IP information, what might they do? Scary thought. Becoming a mod entails access to private information, and if someone abuses that authority to do whatever they want with that private information I can guarantee at least one thing; jorb and loftar will not care in the slightest.

Very well written

[Zentetsuken]

I agree!

I miss MadGonad

Edit: MadGonad for mod

Very well written

[sMartins]

I'll be the first to vote for sMartins. What's he going to do, delete The Wizards' Tower?

Thank you, kind sir.

I aim to clean up misleading comments, those with dual purposes and those of a malicious nature.

Edit:

And last but not least, to limit the interference of the usual elite circle against us mere mortals.

[Kaios3]

I'm not going to spend all day grabbing every terrible post they have made since the amount is inexhaustible, but here's a few examples of how this community has been constantly getting worse as a result of the posts from these guys:

2019 shit posting in creative thread with no support received from devs or mods
https://www.havenandhearth.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=51&t=64522

2021 majority of users that currently spam the forum making posts that are homophobic, racist, misogynistic, other types of ist and ick.
https://www.havenandhearth.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=51&t=71964
https://www.havenandhearth.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=51&t=71957

April 2022 sabinati attempts an ultimate moderation technique to deal with the garbage posts
"can you all just be cool ffs"
https://www.havenandhearth.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=51&t=72829&start=10#p905007

April 2022 more garbage from the same individuals harassing one of the few people to actually bother managing the wiki and spent a long time contributing towards it. So much for that though, thanks discord gang. Another player-managed community service taken down by truly brave heroes.
https://www.havenandhearth.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=51&t=72512

May 2022 wasting dev time before the release of a new world

Let me preface by saying that this is 100% serious.

Why are silly shitpost and socializing threads in the "General offtopic and Socializing" subforum being removed after being allowed for months?

2 things changed about this thread in the last few days;

1. a single problem forum user, Jalpha, began making aggressive flaming posts, discussing disturbing topics and and making blatant hatespeech posts.
   
   ex.
   
   (please note that this user has a massive, massive forum history filled with blatant hatespeech that has gone largely ignored and unmoderated for YEARS and I and many other people would be willing to aid the moderator team in sifting through his endless shitposts to find the 100s of examples of extreme hatespeech, racism and attempts to get reactions with extreme antisocial opinions.
   
   
2. The thread name was switched and the general topic was switched to facilitate a pro-LGBT discussion

I am genuinely curious and a little bit worried about why only 1 one these actions were moderated. The pro-gay posts were literally manually removed by mods, but the hatespeech remains. Only 1 of these things appears in the rule section. Hatespeech is deemed as inappropriate content directly in the rules and Jalpha has a long, long, long history of entering threads to derail them with his hatespeech. Meanwhile, the creator of the Its every Gay Bro thread was reprimanded and had his posts cherrypicked and deleted while jalpha's forum post history is FILLED with 100% real, 100% against the rules, 100% sickening HATE SPEECH.


Please understand that this is a forum largely filled with adults who are just trying to have a laugh and socialize, and that any attempt to equate the silly, innocent shitposty offtopic socializing with Jalphas extreme HATE SPEECH will be considered a disgusting, transparent attempt to dismiss this serious situation that needs addressing.

NOTE: This is not moderator sass, and not necessarily a negative review of moderator actions. This is an open constructive criticism and questioning derived from extreme confusion over the representation of the rules, the timing of the moderation and the seeming history of homophobic-leaning direction of moderation in general.

I think it would be very fair to make an honest, official reply explaining the reasoning for this out-of-the-blue decision.


I also hereby PLEA FOR MODERATION against Jalpha. There is no reason why he should not be on a permanent curfew for his relentless racism and hatespeech.

You're leaving out quite a few details here. On July 17th, page 12 out of 26, Zentetsuken posted openly provocative mod sass, and he followed up on it on July 19th (page 13). Jalpha took the bait on July 28th (page 17), after which the thread immediately derailed into dogpiling and pedo accusations. The only reference to homosexuality was an unwarranted accusation of people being 'homosexual child groomers' by Jalpha on August 3rd (page 22) until Bumfrog 'officially' turned it into an LGBTQ+ support thread to troll Jalpha (on August 4th, page 23):

Greetings and good evening, Everyday Bros. There are a few matters that today need addressing. It is my belief that the following statements will help every every day be a good one.

On the matter of good/bad posts

• every bump will be considered good, as constant bumps serve the needs of the thread. We must be doing this every day, at least
• no post will be officially condemned. Users are welcome to discuss post quality as they see fit, but it is the opinion of the Every Day Team that everyone has a right to post free of punishment

On the matter of homosexuality

• It is with great honor I announce that Every Day Bro is officially a Gay-Allied thread
• While we do not have an official partnership with the IAL (Internation Agenda of the LGBTQ+ (Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual, Queer, and etc)), we will be contacting Non-Str*ight Representatives as soon as possible
• We support the inalienable rights of gay peeps to marry, date, intercourse, hold hands, kiss, and otherwise be romantically and sexually relating with individuals of the same gender, and, of course, to make posts here Every Day
• Every Friday, we will make an official Gay Post. You are welcome to make your own Gay Posts in the Every Day Bro thread whenever you see fit, and thank you to the countless users who have already done so
• We understand that, even more so than the previous statement against punishing 'bad' posts, this stance might put us in contention with the Hafen Forum's moderation team. This is a risk we are willing to take

Have an excellent rest of your thursday, bros! Hope you're finding respite from this heat wave.

(This was before the post you quoted. #2 happened before #1 did.)

This thread was utterly unsalvageable and it getting Hel'd was absolutely justified. What baffles me more is that a) This didn't happen ages ago as it was heading in this direction for quite a while now, and b) Neither Jalpha nor Zentetsuken seem to have been punished for it. Jalpha is obvious, but Zentetsuken played a major role in intentionally derailing the thread and was openly mocking the moderation even outside 'A Plea For Moderation'.

Also, do you really want to waste the devs' time with this just before the new world starts? I'd much rather have them focus on performing the last preparations for w14 than have them waste time babysitting shitposters on the forum.

https://www.havenandhearth.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=51&t=72596

2023 trolling new players for the 58281972185721th time
https://www.havenandhearth.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=74&t=74131

2024 moderation thread, think we all know how that one is going
https://www.havenandhearth.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=39&t=72476