Prelude: World 16.1

[Halbertz]

Imho, adding QoL to PvP would unironically benefit people who fundamentally do not want to PvP. Let me explain.

Under current "ecosystem" the ends result tends to be that there's a small handful of autists who tolerate the hurdles PvP system throws at them, and effectively gain a monopoly on violence. They get to do whatever they want.

If those hurdles were lessened to a reasonable degree, more factions would form and persist. PvP players now have more of each other to fight. Maybe I'm overly optimistic, but some PvE larper could be saved by a faction just because they want to be the "good guys" in the next big Moot thread.

In a very idealistic scenario, even some casuals could engage with PvP, perhaps forming a small militia that can provide at least some deterrance.

Any QoL - good. Making pvp more accessable - even better. Noone trying to gatekeep the sacred knowledge of hitting each other in red and blue. Quite opposite - JnL are doing more bad decisions in pvp related gamedesign.
For example: introduction of meteors was good idea with terrible execution. Making it one stone that could be mined in 2 minutes just soawned what we call factions in game. Instead lots of groups that were busy constantly fighting eachother we got consolidation into two groups just to have a chance to mine the rock. Realms? I won't even bother.
On the bright side, seems like they are doing patches completely randomly. So we could actually get a good one.

[kabuto202]

I don't think J&L view their game as a hardcore PvP game.
The way some of you are playing isn’t how they meant it to be played but they’re too Swedish to do anything about it. I love and hate them for that.

Unironically this. This game has many cool and wonderful mechanics for collaborative shenanigans and sells player conflict as more of a rarity rather than a constant. The problem is that no one ever engages in these things outside internally within existing guilds, so nearly all emergent player interactions are always some form of hostile. Neighbors are defaulted too as threats rather than friends, which is frankly sad. It's a beautiful concept that's unfortunately ruined by a bunch of misanthropes pushing everyone else out.

[Audiosmurf]

For what it's worth, they're on the record as saying that haven isn't a "PVP game," as such, so much as a "game with PVP in it." The distinction is meaningful.

[SnuggleSnail]

Eh, maybe I'm just being an asshole, but I can't help interpret that as a "it's just a prank, bro" tier cope. It's like when they used to say "it's not a game, it's a social experiment :ugeek: ". Or when they try to implement things that are obviously unworkable from the concept stage and say "we're just two people" as if that's relevant. You can't turn PVP off. PVP to some extent influences every action you take in the game. Haven is a PVP game.

[YellowGhostoMain]

Eh, maybe I'm just being an asshole, but I can't help interpret that as a "it's just a prank, bro" tier cope. It's like when they used to say "it's not a game, it's a social experiment ". Or when they implement things are were obviously unworkable from the concept stage and say "we're just two people" as if that's relevant. You can't turn PVP off. PVP to some extent influences every action you take in the game. Haven is a PVP game.

Indeed its not PvP in itself that is bad, rather its the relation it has to every other system present in the game. You add the human element and you have the top 10% of players, the ones that actually engage in PvP, chasing each other not because of resources, but because their discord groups are enemies. The result is very unhappy people.

Fuck Sweden.

[SnuggleSnail]

I like it :)

my yearly routine of intentionally dehumanizing hermits in my head by reading the forums has me HYPED for W16.1 and ready to kill

[AlexNT]

For what it's worth, they're on the record as saying that haven isn't a "PVP game," as such, so much as a "game with PVP in it." The distinction is meaningful.

They are not wrong. A "PVP game" would focus on making PVP accessible and fun, and on having close to all of its player base participating, a core and vital mechanic (besides obvious examples like WarThunder or COD, think e.g. early Allods Online).

A "game with PVP" that is Haven, makes PVP obscure, high-stakes, high participation cost activity (grinding moves from animals, before one can even meaningfully try it comes to mind), most appealing and largely geared towards a small handful of autists.

[kabuto202]

For what it's worth, they're on the record as saying that haven isn't a "PVP game," as such, so much as a "game with PVP in it." The distinction is meaningful.

They are not wrong. A "PVP game" would focus on making PVP accessible and fun, and on having close to all of its player base participating, a core and vital mechanic (besides obvious examples like WarThunder or COD, think e.g. early Allods).

A "game with PVP" that is Haven, makes PVP obscure, high-stakes, high participation cost activity (grinding moves from animals, before one can even meaningfully try it comes to mind), most appealing and largely geared towards to a small handful of autists.

Which is all the more wild that people unironically attach their identity to be elite PvPers in this game. An idiom about frogs and wells is lost on these people.

[TemuSoldier]

The solution to "griefing" in HnH is to simply remove most of you.

im not trying to "own" you , but this is a truly Farquadian statement

also just add combat bots to Valhalla that chase and drink and combo moves etc, make PvP less esoteric so people arent like a fish out of water when they get aggro'd (including me)

Sure. Maybe. But it's not my job to rehabilitate you people. Like ya'll as a community suck so much that the devs go radio silent for half a year just so they don't have to interact with any of you. Nearly every negative on Steam is "cool game, but community sux." Every person I've invited to play this game has some impression of "this is the most toxic shithole I've ever seen". I'm not sure why you're surprised where the obvious solution is just: don't play with the people you don't like and very few of you are very remotely likeable.

That being said I do agree that having combat bots whose behavior you could customize would be a very good addition. Likewise I agree that adding QoL to PvP and making it more accessible would make it a less miserable experience for more casual players. However, these are ultimately all band-aids on the core issue of a community whose here to have fun at the expense of others rather than with others.

victim blaming smfh

Snail’s right btw (and I’m just saying this as his alt, not because I seriously agree). Jord and Fartlor are not the paragon innocent bb bois you goons think they are, wormtongue’d around by the Snail in their ear.

idiom about frogs and wells is lost on these people.

Like, just ask them who they’d like to throw down “the well”

[Rebs]

None of you are being mass murdered the way you are portraying I don't understand this Blatant lying. None of you have had your base raided, You have lost a few Q10 Nettle pants.

At least right now you are not, and again you are all super hypocritical, if you are a pve player keep playing on W16 and you will be left alone but you wont because its boring to play in a dead world and you will all join W16.1, its like moth to a flame complaining they are being burnt, I have no sympathy for you. Everyone loves world resets because of its competitive shenanigans and as soon you start falling behind because someone has put more effort in then you you scream for PvE modes. You will be surprised how much PvP happens by everyone in the first weekend. EVERYONE. its not just a small group of people, its literally everyone that comes across a base that's not claimed or not walled and they will get a boner taking the goodies. If you all are sitting here telling me you have never bashed a claim pole or taken a few items when no one was looking day 1 I simply do not believe you. Even Alfrety does it and guess what he gets a kick out of it.