Game Development: Darkwood Gilding

[abt79]

Local casual larping edgelords spend fifteen years trying to make a pvp game, never have the experience, patience, or frankly skill to construct a system that’s fun and balanced. Hilarity ensues.

“Why are you guys such autistic minmaxers?” *makes their competitive permadeath game a hundred times more tedious and obtuse*

[Undefined]

Combat is just a tool to get to the end result that you want (KOs, kills, developed skulls, boat keys, and loot) and the system itself isn't enjoyable at all imo

This 100%. If y'all want people to participate in PvP make PvP something that's actually fun. Running for ages and drinking gallons of water just isn't cutting it.

Exactly my take on it, I like PvP games, and I have a long history of being very good at it... In other games, where PvP is fun.
I have been playing this game for 12 years, but I've never enjoyed PvP in it so I just don't do it. Ironically the permadeath, open combat nature of this game is originally what attracted me.

Re armour gilding. Pointless, nulls armour penalties and the other reasons mentioned already.
Re armour repairs. Would be helpful, always seemed silly that we couldn't.
Re siege changes. Wrecking ball & sign spam botting is a dumb abuse of mechanics, good to see it countered with preventative fixes to the mechanics.

[Zentetsuken]

Combat is just a tool to get to the end result that you want (KOs, kills, developed skulls, boat keys, and loot) and the system itself isn't enjoyable at all imo

This 100%. If y'all want people to participate in PvP make PvP something that's actually fun. Running for ages and drinking gallons of water just isn't cutting it.

I don't think it's even considered a tool for the majority of PVPers.

I have spoken to many PVPers and the idea of PVP being "in a good state" is a weirdly dishonest descriptor. It's in a good state for these people because it's difficult for 1 side to get so ahead of the other than it feels unfair and not even worth it to try fighting. It's in a good state for the small group of meta pvpers who all know each other, who organize their own set of rules for engagement and who organize and attempt to balance their own mini-factions and groups.

To say the fun of haven PVP is even remotely relative to the mechanics is super dishonest. Haven PVP is fun for PVPers because they have mastered the mechanics, they know the metas and they know their teammates and opponents. They get in to voice chats and chase people they know, have played with, or have fought with for years. You can hear them having fun in the recorded voicechats, and it has nothing to do with the actual mechanics. The appeal is the same as it would be for any PVP game with a tiny community of people who all known each other. It's fun to fight with friends against people you know.

Any arbitrary changes to weapon values or cooldowns are a product of feedback from events like this and in no way reflect the way that the majority of players would ever engage in PVP. Every last update or minute of thought put in to the development of PVP over the last 5 years have been based on feedback from these groups, who engage in PVP on a different level than any other person in the game.

It is fundamentally and objectively bad and serves no purpose in this game outside of entertaining about 1% of the playerbase for 1.5 months. A playerbase who literally have to agree upon their own set of outside rules and regulations, balance their groups and still end up arguing about how stupid and unfair it is after almost every fight.



PVP is not a tool, it doesn't accomplish anything of substance beyond being a deterrent to new and uninterested players. It only exists to serve as a nostalgia fix for a few players for a short time each year.

Every single day that it remains in the core game is a day wasted.

Let's remove it from the core game and create a ranked arena in valhalla and move on in a positive direction.

[DoctorCookie]

It could be that this is just a place where casual/semi casual players with time constraints cannot exist alongside the very hardcore few. It is not the pvp aspect but the massive loss of time and works that occurs when the round the clock players get "bored."

[AriZona]

Combat is just a tool to get to the end result that you want (KOs, kills, developed skulls, boat keys, and loot) and the system itself isn't enjoyable at all imo

This 100%. If y'all want people to participate in PvP make PvP something that's actually fun. Running for ages and drinking gallons of water just isn't cutting it.

Maybe, you could try asking your opponents not to run and stand still = Perfect PVP!

(pseudo-PVPers are complaining and complaining how PVP is not good, and this is bad, and that is bad. You have just to meet in some forest and knock each other. Not sure what are waiting for? Wait, somebody will complain *again* too much drinking, swords too heavy, they cant fight because of credo system is bad, and nuts are too big to run... However, it all looks that it is just masquerade to pretend loving and being "PVPer" which ends up ... bitching on forums )

[wonder-ass]

what is this massive cope from all of you? my character is dog shit every world and I shit on 99% of the player base with that same character.
its oke just say ur bad at the game and play a different one no need to go through loops and blame it on how boring or long fights last.

[Clemins]

viewtopic.php?f=40&t=44710

[Cayur]

I agree that PvP should probably be revisited, though I know you guys have also explained that you guys have been burned by this before and spent weeks/months working on new systems only for them to be scrapped. I honestly don't even know fully what would make it fun or fit into current haven "lore".

One thing that I have realized from playing other MMOs and what really makes Haven stand out PvP wise, is that most other MMOs have sustain mechanics, such as healing or buffing players. Roles that players undertake such as tank/healer/dps etc. Which allows PvP to trade damage and sustain and keep fighting and allow interesting dynamics.

The main problem that haven will always have no matter the changes to PvP, will be that one side is running and another side is chasing will always be a thing. Think back to even legacy combat, you just ran until you got the chance to movement hit somebody who was close behind you, and KO them. And any changes that lock players into standing combat will just become a stat check.

Unless some sort of sustain mechanic is introduced. Because currently once one side loses a certain amount of HP you just run away, or if you're vastly outnumbered as it's not worth taking the risk.

Idk maybe make it so that killing a driad allows you to craft a driad staff which can be used by a player to heal others HP. The ent maybe allows for another type of weapon/tool. Would also make them valuable dynamic world "bosses" and something for players to be actively looking for.

Maybe different armor types give higher defense bonuses but less damage output and vice versa.

These changes would possibly also allow for more engaging PvE, rather than as it stands currently, just sitting in a boat out of range hitting it until you have enough stats to fight it inland, and even then the PvE is hardly fun, just spam 2 moves.

Maybe you guys like the current way PvPvE is done and want to keep it somewhat similar, and these specific roles and mechanics might be out of touch with what you envision haven to be, but generally, that's what other MMOs use to keep PvPvE interesting and just my 2 cents.

i think instead of regular stat gildings itd be cool if there were super rare items that dropped from dungeons or something that when gilded into armor or weapons gave bonuses like 3% dmg increase, etc. obviously the armor repair system would be necessary and this would work well on the actual weapon too

Also yeah, some randomized loot spawning in dungeons that you could gild to weapons and such would be really cool and make dungeons worth doing after you've used enough hearts that the +hp bonus is kinda worthless for the effort. Larpers who don't want to engage in PvP could do these PvE dungeons still and sell the drops at markets and such.

[DDDsDD999]

i think instead of regular stat gildings itd be cool if there were super rare items that dropped from dungeons or something that when gilded into armor or weapons gave bonuses like 3% dmg increase, etc. obviously the armor repair system would be necessary and this would work well on the actual weapon too

Also yeah, some randomized loot spawning in dungeons that you could gild to weapons and such would be really cool and make dungeons worth doing after you've used enough hearts that the +hp bonus is kinda worthless for the effort. Larpers who don't want to engage in PvP could do these PvE dungeons still and sell the drops at markets and such.

Hey let's not add another hoop to jump through for pvp, especially not the boring/broken dungeon system. Bat dungeons are so insanely retarded, people just don't complain more because they're just a luxury. And risking death because you're outlawed in those things is absolutely retarded.

[ItsFunToLose]

what is this massive cope from all of you? my character is dog shit every world and I shit on 99% of the player base with that same character.
its oke just say ur bad at the game and play a different one no need to go through loops and blame it on how boring or long fights last.

It's hilarious to me that the same people bitching at the 99% of the playerbase for being dogshit ignorant morons for not understanding how pvp works are the same autists who complain that the playerbase takes a nosedive and there's no one for them to raid after 3 months as if they aren't the direct cause of it. Like parasites killing the host until both are dead. There's joy in chasing spruce caps and taking their shit and throwing it into the water, bashing their walls, and loading up chests of low quality leather and cloth and wax until there aren't any more sprucecaps willing to actually play the game with you.

It's been fun setting alarm clocks to interrupt my sleep schedule just so I can feed digital worms, but if I get raided or killed, I'm gonna go play some Rocket League, idgaf, bye.