Divine Intervention: The Case of Core vs ST & CotTK

[crfernald]

If you showed up and nuked my house you'd probably get baskets of fruit in the mail, but that does nothing to develop the game in any meaningful way.

Do you think that I believe otherwise? I can only agree fully. I would, indeed, much rather have spent my Saturday doing something constructive.
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I'm genuinely not trying to be a prick about it Bjorn, but given that we had four worlds of nightmare level botting and alt accounts, I just don't know. When I started the only alt account you would have was for mining or farming, depending on what you did on your main, and that would only be for the resource collection part of gameplay. Then botting came along, which changed that paradigm, but every change to the game mechanics you have made since then continues this fundamental trend away from the spirit of what Haven and Hearth was to begin with and the charm of permadeath. There hasn't been real permadeath for five years.

I think Boshaw could articulate this a lot better than I can, and you'd likely be more receptive to him, but he got so mad about how Hafen was more of the same departure that he won't even talk about HnH anymore.

It's just the adamant attitude that your changes, from curios to ingame intervention, will work when they are a square peg going into a round hole that makes me want to troll you sometimes, a lot of the time.

But really this is me being honest. I loved your game in W3, I would even pay for it. It's hard to tell what goes on in your head sometimes though, it often times seems like bizzaro land from an outside perspective.

This is not me lashing out because I am angry.

I suppose you deleting my entirely worksafe and not awful avatars and signatures is a better example of you lashing out because you are angry.

[jorb]

I suppose you deleting my entirely worksafe and not awful avatars and signatures is a better example of you lashing out because you are angry.

Has the thought ever occurred that I might just be trolling you right back? I do not get angry about your autism, sir. I know you can't help it.

[jorb]

There hasn't been real permadeath for five years.

I could perhaps be tempted to agree with this. Perhaps the question then is how to get back to that more naive Arcadia, and I am not sure I have the answer.

[hitori]

jorb
why do you even bother listening to these assholes?

[crfernald]

I could perhaps be tempted to agree with this. Perhaps the question then is how to get back to that more naive Arcadia, and I am not sure I have the answer.

If it required a major departure from what you've been doing for the past five years, would you consider it? My assumption is no, which is why I'm more often than not completely nonconstructive. If the answer is yes, I believe that Boshaw, once again would be the best person to speak to. Regarding Haven and the changes over the years, he's more level headed and sensible than anyone in the community.

I suppose you deleting my entirely worksafe and not awful avatars and signatures is a better example of you lashing out because you are angry.

Has the thought ever occurred that I might just be trolling you right back? I do not get angry about your autism, sir. I know you can't help it.

Like I've said before, it's hard to tell when you're trolling and when you're just flailing your arms around.

why do you even bother listening to these assholes?

Because when you don't listen to people that disagree with you and at the very least make an effort to understand their rationale, you end up a totally unaware cuckold like burgingham.

[jorb]

If it required a major departure from what you've been doing for the past five years, would you consider it? My assumption is no

Depends on what kind of a major departure we're talking about. I'm not going to turn the game into angry birds, for example, and I think Haven does at least one or two things right(ish).

But, yes, we certainly want to take the game new places. What we have now is only a baseline, and we are not pretending otherwise.

It's when we hit basic feature parity with old Haven that the real work begins.

[crfernald]

Closed source clients with a checksum requirement to connect to the server, limits on accounts from a single IP (Is the argument that oh, I have family that plays the game, ever not bullshit?), hybrid LP/timewall, at the very least a hybrid action/curio lp system if you aren't going to remove curios completely, a far more strict experience requirement for action/curio based lp gain, the complete removal of spawning on old hearthfires and skulls, lp gained from murder post-kill based on the murdered account's cumulative experience gain rather than LP gain, LP incentives to leave your base and travel to areas conductive for PVP engagements, there is so much that would be a departure from the current system to return to the old feel.

I think that it's inappropriate to discuss granular details as it turns into a huge fuckfest of questions like "Why don't we have wolves?" "It would be so cool if you could tame bears, why cant we?" "Why don't you add X food/piece of equiptment to the game?" and "Why isn't there magic and elves?"

Essential mechanics like this are unfortunately not popular to discuss and any changes that make the game harder and geared towards hardcore permadeath will undoubtedly be unpopular with both you in some circumstances and the playerbase, so as we depart further and further from that old hardcore permadeath, I hope you can understandably see why I don't assume it to ever happen.

[crfernald]

Maybe the most prudent way to return to the naive Arcadia, as you describe it, is a wholesale reversion in terms of mechanics, new closed source client, and heavy development server side for a new hybrid action/lp curio system and alteration of the rewards mechanics for killing and punishment mechanics of death.

[ArvinJA]

limits on accounts from a single IP (Is the argument that oh, I have family that plays the game, ever not bullshit?)

I've hosted H&H LAN parties, also, ISPs abusing NAT might mean some people who aren't even close might share IPs.

Your suggestions aren't new, and this is the wrong thread.

[crfernald]

limits on accounts from a single IP (Is the argument that oh, I have family that plays the game, ever not bullshit?)

I've hosted H&H LAN parties, also, ISPs abusing NAT might mean some people who aren't even close might share IPs.

Your suggestions aren't new, and this is the wrong thread.

I know it's the wrong thread, as I've said to jorb regarding discussing changing core mechanics and following my suggestion that he take the conversation to Boshaw and following giving talking points for the aforementioned future conversation.

H&H lan parties, for the record, is another bullshit excuse against the idea. Yes it can happen, but honestly, how fucking often?

Is it worth ruling out ideas such as that if the result is a departure from what the game is intended to be? That is the more important point that I want to make.

So much effort has gone into elaborate mechanic workarounds to avoid solutions that were ruled out back in 2010 despite their success in other MMOs. The road traveled down, that we are at today, has not worked to the spirit of the game, and resistance to revert or consider past ideas, such as you've demonstrated, is part of the reason I troll the devs and community. It also draws parallels to the multiculturalism and immigrants will fix all our problems disaster facing Europe, which I like to troll with as an allegory, but I suppose that dead horse has been beaten enough.