Game Development: Season's Greetings

Announcements about major changes in Haven & Hearth.

Re: Game Development: Season's Greetings

Postby Shadow7168 » Wed Nov 06, 2019 12:10 am

blinx wrote:If you think there is *nothing* to do in winter other than sit on your hands and wait, that's a failure on your part - not theirs.

There really is much less to do in winter. No farming, foraging, significantly reduced animals, limited questing if you get for example "bring a laurel seed to x" or especially credo quests.

Maybe you want to renovate your base, make it all pretty and do some paving/wall building. Sure is fun having to individually dig each and every snow tile - really brings back memories of legacy farming.

You say there's still cooking and crafting, but that's something you can do in any season. There's a whole lot less to do but not much more in return.
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Re: Game Development: Season's Greetings

Postby shubla » Wed Nov 06, 2019 1:41 am

Having some time every now and then to do something else than to play this game for all the time that you are awake is probably a good thing.
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Re: Game Development: Season's Greetings

Postby tyrtix » Wed Nov 06, 2019 1:43 pm

need to change the routine you're playing with, for example dry fishes in spring to autumn, pelts in winter that are faster, mine and cut wood in winter or build new thingies like tar pit/oven/forge and so on.
What i didn't like much was that with the passage from autumn to winter i could not harvest my ready farming thingies just the day winter started, effectively wasting an harvest, wich is not exactly cool.
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Re: Game Development: Season's Greetings

Postby wonder-ass » Wed Nov 06, 2019 8:44 pm

MagicManICT wrote:I like the concept of seasons. As it sits... doesn't work well. you have ~10 days of nothing with winter, and if it's something that is seasonally particular you want, you might have to wait 30-50 days for it to roll around again.


winter should have bin a season where everything is outside rather than inside, better q animals? better q forageable? new cool winter event for the pvp folk? new event for the pve/hermits? rn its just a 10 day pause with nothing to do but sit around and roleplay. the aesthetic of it wasnt enough.
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Re: Game Development: Season's Greetings

Postby Rexz » Wed Nov 06, 2019 11:00 pm

wonder-ass wrote:
MagicManICT wrote:I like the concept of seasons. As it sits... doesn't work well. you have ~10 days of nothing with winter, and if it's something that is seasonally particular you want, you might have to wait 30-50 days for it to roll around again.


winter should have bin a season where everything is outside rather than inside, better q animals? better q forageable? new cool winter event for the pvp folk? new event for the pve/hermits? rn its just a 10 day pause with nothing to do but sit around and roleplay. the aesthetic of it wasnt enough.


If there was a temperature based system, like in Don't Starved Together, I could see this being reasonable. There are new things in winter outside that would make it worth exploring, but venturing outside in the cold of winter should be risky as you need to be prepared or the freezing temperature will get to you. Although people can argue that you can HF back which make temperature kinda moot unless you have some sorta debuff that stack over time that can prevent you from HFing unless you are KO'd, or something along that line. At the moment, winter is just super bland with not much things to do on the surface aside from sledding around exploring.

As someone who's brand new into this game and started out early in the winter season, I was really disapointed in my inability to progress through certain things such as farming and having access to certain type of materials for making good food. Either make certain foragables be more readily available in caves during the winter season, or make some sorta indoor farming/cultivation system for beginners to have access to so that winter wouldn't be such a content blocker for new players!

  • No clovers, couldn't find any for a week until I discovered an abandoned house with a couple in it. This meant no taming or utilizing neutral wild animals.
  • Lack of strings, I had to spend over an hour running around for a box full of roots. Squirrel tails should honestly soak and dry like 5x as fast for it to be worth taking up the space to make the more useful leather.
  • As winter was freezing up a lot of rivers, I had to walk much further to get to a useable water source.
  • It was pretty hard to find mushrooms and insect without risking encounter with bats trying to sneak through them in the cave.
  • I can't farm anything as a newbie, no seeds, and even if I could find seeds by pure luck, I cannot plant anything onto the found. Pots doesn't count for a newbie in this scenario IMO, it's more of a mid-game thing for someone with an established claim.
  • Winter doesn't seem to pose any dangerous challenge for a newbie like me who spawned naked into the world, it just make progession horribly slow, and thus I believe it is inherently bad game design, how it is right now.
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Re: Game Development: Season's Greetings

Postby MagicManICT » Wed Nov 06, 2019 11:48 pm

Rexz wrote:As winter was freezing up a lot of rivers, I had to walk much further to get to a useable water source.

I'd say, "make a well, then!" but how to get that much string during the winter? Last well I built needed 80 or so rope. (note for newer players: you can find locations that needs the minimum amount of rope if you want to use the dowsing rod... still a lot of rope for winter with the extremely limited amount of string available.)
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Re: Game Development: Season's Greetings

Postby stywoot5 » Thu Nov 07, 2019 12:11 am

You can break ice with a pickaxe or find water in l1 using caves... Also you really need to build water containers, at least a barrel, so you don't have to look for a water source every time you need water.

Indoor farming would force the non-beginners to also farm during winter... I kind of like the winter-farming break we have currently
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Re: Game Development: Season's Greetings

Postby Rexz » Thu Nov 07, 2019 1:07 am

MagicManICT wrote:
Rexz wrote:As winter was freezing up a lot of rivers, I had to walk much further to get to a useable water source.

I'd say, "make a well, then!" but how to get that much string during the winter? Last well I built needed 80 or so rope. (note for newer players: you can find locations that needs the minimum amount of rope if you want to use the dowsing rod... still a lot of rope for winter with the extremely limited amount of string available.)


stywoot5 wrote:You can break ice with a pickaxe or find water in l1 using caves... Also you really need to build water containers, at least a barrel, so you don't have to look for a water source every time you need water.

Indoor farming would force the non-beginners to also farm during winter... I kind of like the winter-farming break we have currently


Pickaxes and metal shovels are not accessible to the vast majority of players who are brand new to the game. Currently I am almost 2 weeks into the game and I've finally got around to being able to make metal tools, with not enough materials to make all of them just yet.

A lot of the suggestions and opinions from people seem to be missing the context that the struggling player is VERY NEW TO THE GAME. Most new players, if they start out in the winter, are not able to access the ingredients/materials easily for progressing into more advanced constructions, machines, and tools. I only learned about the well maybe like 4 or 5 days into the game, and even after I knew about it I didn't think it was worth it to build one just yet at my stage of the game considering i would need OVER 100 FORAGED ROOTS FOR STRINGS (10x ropes) AT THE VERY LEAST.

Indoor farming does not mean basically having a plowed field in door, it could be cultivating mushrooms in your basement, cave, or burrow. Basically where fungi can grow in a dark and damp environment (perhaps with soaked tree bark as a humidifer in a crate filled with soil and some mushrooms). Additionally I think it would be neat to have insects have a chance to spawn when you have a lot of plants clustered together indoor, so that flying insects doesn't just compeltely disappear in the winter. Basically I'm asking for some methods of accessing limited resources at that are at the moment very inaccessible for a new HaH player, or that just completely impossible to obtain at the moment in the winter that completely hinders basic progress for newbies.
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Re: Game Development: Season's Greetings

Postby Agrik » Thu Nov 07, 2019 2:49 pm

Headchef wrote:Pot is always big business. 420blazeit
Well, hemp isn't grown in Garden pots. Though... It can be made to be grown in pots too. And some other crops. To continue being farmed in winter (with somewhat limited growth and/or harvest) indoors.

Headchef wrote:But about garden pots the reason people are "passionate" about it is because there are many people especially on forums who basically ask for "make game harder" (where harder means: more annoying)
I never saw people literally asking to make the game more annoying, so this "basically" looks like twisting the meaning. Changes may indeed result in making someone's game position better or worse, but it's kinda impropriate to judge the game mechanics based on the advantage/disadvantage they give to you personally.

Though maybe it'd better to postpone some changes until the new world, so the players won't feel like somebody push to change the rules mid-session.

Headchef wrote:while most likely being sprucecaps themselves. Or atleast not properly developed.
Probably, but what's then? I don't think one must drive at full throttle (and downhill) to have a say about some issues of the car's design. Because car industry makes not only the racing cars, you know. Mostly not the racing cars.

Headchef wrote:at the same time we got the other 95% of the game which is still unfinished and unbalanced.
Now we're talking. I'd like to think about solutions and ideas if told what are these 95%, instead of being blamed for not following somebody's opinion telepathically. As I thought — well, the devs made the seasons, so maybe it worth giving a feedback on what they do.

Headchef wrote:So just like the season update in general, it's just adding more chaos and less quality of life for those who still play while adding nothing meaningful (yet?) to the game.
That's plainly wrong. Being one of "those who still play" (please don't twist the meaning by dehumanizing those who don't reach some arbitrary threshold), I do enjoy seasons, they add meaningful difference at least for me.

Headchef wrote:And then people will come along saying winter is supposed to be shit well....
Winter isn't supposed to be shit, it's supposed to be hard. While I agree it was implemented prematurely, without enough wintertime content, why mix "hard" and "shit"?

Headchef wrote:And with all that happening, wanting to harass people who probably do barely anything except maintain their garden pots, isn't well received :lol:
If that was directed at me, I was not "wanting to harass". I appreciate your effort to explain, but it's so full of strawman arguments... that it doesn't show anything besides they personally disliked the consequences (and maybe even imaginary) of the idea.
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Re: Game Development: Season's Greetings

Postby MagicManICT » Thu Nov 07, 2019 5:25 pm

Agrik wrote:I never saw people literally asking to make the game more annoying, so this "basically" looks like twisting the meaning.

While opinions vary, I will say that some of the requests that have been posted in this section of the forums can be labeled by a vast majority of the player base as "more annoying."

Agrik wrote:I don't think one must drive at full throttle (and downhill) to have a say about some issues of the car's design. Because car industry makes not only the racing cars, you know. Mostly not the racing cars.

Nice analogy, and games, much like cars, get tuned for those 1%ers. Unlike cars, you have to tune games because not doing so means players will exploit them, which is a major issue when a game has any portion of it online, and can even be considered critical (and a game killer) when the game is always online.
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