Game Development: Seaworthy Movement

Announcements about major changes in Haven & Hearth.

Re: Game Development: Seaworthy Movement

Postby SnuggleSnail » Mon Mar 01, 2021 12:58 pm

jorb wrote:
  • Added a "Seaworthiness" meter, active while on Ships (Knarrs & Snekkjas), displaying how much damage the vessel has currently taken. We debated adding it to rafts, dugouts, and rowboats, but decided against it since it would be useless info most of the time, but feel free to opine otherwise.


Because of how unobtrusive it is, I would personally prefer it to be active for rowboats/dugouts/rafts just for whirlpools
"We specialize in permadeath and forum drama." -man who removed death and deletes every drama thread
http://www.seatribe.se/
User avatar
SnuggleSnail
 
Posts: 2427
Joined: Sat Oct 12, 2013 4:04 pm

Re: Game Development: Seaworthy Movement

Postby loftar » Mon Mar 01, 2021 4:30 pm

SnuggleSnail wrote:just for whirlpools

That's a good argument, I guess.
"Object-oriented design is the roman numerals of computing." -- Rob Pike
User avatar
loftar
 
Posts: 8926
Joined: Fri Apr 03, 2009 7:05 am

Re: Game Development: Seaworthy Movement

Postby loftar » Mon Mar 01, 2021 4:37 pm

jordancoles wrote:What about setting the audiobuf to something more reasonable by default so that people can hear the sound a few milliseconds later in exchange for not having to hear stuttering bullshit every time they load up the game :ugeek:

The basic problem is that a larger value isn't really very sensible, as it makes the latency too high in my opinion. On the other hand, there's also the problem that neither Jorb nor I have any audiobuf problems, so I do tend to forget that it's even a thing, and in that context, just setting the audiobuf unreasonably high by default could perhaps at least serve to remind me to debug the problem more often. (There's also the issue that I can't really debug it productively since I can't reproduce it, though.)

If only for the record, what are the audiobuf values that you guys need for your audio to work properly? Is 2048 enough, or does it have to go all the way to 4096? Mine tends to work all the way down to 128. Preferably, for frame-synced audio at 60 FPS, it should be below 750.
"Object-oriented design is the roman numerals of computing." -- Rob Pike
User avatar
loftar
 
Posts: 8926
Joined: Fri Apr 03, 2009 7:05 am

Re: Game Development: Seaworthy Movement

Postby shubla » Mon Mar 01, 2021 4:43 pm

loftar wrote:
jordancoles wrote:What about setting the audiobuf to something more reasonable by default so that people can hear the sound a few milliseconds later in exchange for not having to hear stuttering bullshit every time they load up the game :ugeek:

The basic problem is that a larger value isn't really very sensible, as it makes the latency too high in my opinion. On the other hand, there's also the problem that neither Jorb nor I have any audiobuf problems, so I do tend to forget that it's even a thing, and in that context, just setting the audiobuf unreasonably high by default could perhaps at least serve to remind me to debug the problem more often. (There's also the issue that I can't really debug it productively since I can't reproduce it, though.)

If only for the record, what are the audiobuf values that you guys need for your audio to work properly? Is 2048 enough, or does it have to go all the way to 4096? Mine tends to work all the way down to 128. Preferably, for frame-synced audio at 60 FPS, it should be below 750.

8192 is the commonly used value among those who use the command.
Image
I'm not sure that I have a strong argument against sketch colors - Jorb, November 2019
http://i.imgur.com/CRrirds.png?1
Join the moderated unofficial discord for the game! https://discord.gg/2TAbGj2
Purus Pasta, The Best Client
User avatar
shubla
 
Posts: 13043
Joined: Sun Nov 03, 2013 11:26 am
Location: Finland

Re: Game Development: Seaworthy Movement

Postby Apocoreo » Mon Mar 01, 2021 7:06 pm

loftar wrote:I'm generally a fan of sensible defaults.


I... I don't think that's true, the sensible part. Item quality is still not the default, does anyone play with it off?

Especially in a game as esoteric as this, wouldn't it reduce complaints and distraction from dev time to aim for a modular design? Meaning more options and toggles, preferably in one location as we got an options menu and that toggles menu. Think about how many people ask how to turn item q on.
i like game grumps


#1 Moloch acolyte
User avatar
Apocoreo
 
Posts: 742
Joined: Wed Feb 02, 2011 4:33 pm

Re: Game Development: Seaworthy Movement

Postby valeriesusanne » Mon Mar 01, 2021 9:14 pm

loftar wrote:
I'm generally a fan of sensible defaults.


I... I don't think that's true, the sensible part. Item quality is still not the default, does anyone play with it off?


I... I totally agree with Apocoreo
"He doesn't understand. Explain as you would a child." General Roth'h'ar Sarris
User avatar
valeriesusanne
 
Posts: 149
Joined: Wed May 30, 2018 12:30 pm

Re: Game Development: Seaworthy Movement

Postby TheRussianB » Mon Mar 01, 2021 9:47 pm

loftar wrote:
jordancoles wrote:What about setting the audiobuf to something more reasonable by default so that people can hear the sound a few milliseconds later in exchange for not having to hear stuttering bullshit every time they load up the game :ugeek:

The basic problem is that a larger value isn't really very sensible, as it makes the latency too high in my opinion. On the other hand, there's also the problem that neither Jorb nor I have any audiobuf problems, so I do tend to forget that it's even a thing, and in that context, just setting the audiobuf unreasonably high by default could perhaps at least serve to remind me to debug the problem more often. (There's also the issue that I can't really debug it productively since I can't reproduce it, though.)

If only for the record, what are the audiobuf values that you guys need for your audio to work properly? Is 2048 enough, or does it have to go all the way to 4096? Mine tends to work all the way down to 128. Preferably, for frame-synced audio at 60 FPS, it should be below 750.

Stuttering gradually decreases for me as I increase it up to 8192.
User avatar
TheRussianB
 
Posts: 83
Joined: Sun May 16, 2010 5:43 am

Re: Game Development: Seaworthy Movement

Postby shubla » Mon Mar 01, 2021 10:20 pm

loftar wrote:for frame-synced audio at 60 FPS, it should be below 750.

Frame synced audio sounds cool but in fact, people can only tell the difference in delayed audio on videos with speech for example only after 100ms or so.

So perhaps the default buffer should be increased for all to prevent these audiobuf issues as many have them? Perhaps it could be dynamically scaled?
Image
I'm not sure that I have a strong argument against sketch colors - Jorb, November 2019
http://i.imgur.com/CRrirds.png?1
Join the moderated unofficial discord for the game! https://discord.gg/2TAbGj2
Purus Pasta, The Best Client
User avatar
shubla
 
Posts: 13043
Joined: Sun Nov 03, 2013 11:26 am
Location: Finland

Re: Game Development: Seaworthy Movement

Postby Ciego » Tue Mar 02, 2021 3:26 am

loftar wrote:If only for the record, what are the audiobuf values that you guys need for your audio to work properly? Is 2048 enough, or does it have to go all the way to 4096? Mine tends to work all the way down to 128. Preferably, for frame-synced audio at 60 FPS, it should be below 750.


For a year and a half, I successfully used audiobuf 3072, up until this last summer. Then the game changed and I found the stuttering more noticeable. So I moved it to 4096. This seems the best balance between performance of game, vs performance of audio, on MY COMPUTER.
Ciego
 
Posts: 63
Joined: Sun Mar 03, 2019 8:53 am

Re: Game Development: Seaworthy Movement

Postby loftar » Tue Mar 02, 2021 3:53 am

shubla wrote:Frame synced audio sounds cool but in fact, people can only tell the difference in delayed audio on videos with speech for example only after 100ms or so.

Well, the problem isn't just the absolute amount of latency, it is more that new sounds can only begin playing at the boundaries between audio buffers, so as several frames are covered by one buffer timespan, any sound triggered by any of those frames is forced to start playing at one instance. As such, it not only increases the absolute latency, but also the "jitter", which is arguably the greater problem.
"Object-oriented design is the roman numerals of computing." -- Rob Pike
User avatar
loftar
 
Posts: 8926
Joined: Fri Apr 03, 2009 7:05 am

PreviousNext

Return to Announcements

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Naylok, Python-Requests [Bot], Yandex [Bot] and 27 guests