Game Development: World 13

[ZoddAlmighty]

No real endgame ≠ No good endgame.
Once you max out and optimize the industry infrastructure and stockpile some materials there is no real point in grinding or doing most of the stuff.
Let's say you are a hunter in your village. You can raise your survival to 5000(I know, unrealistic number), but there is no point to it, beside slotting gear. Everything you might want you'll cap with 600 survival. So, what's the point of raising it more? It effectively becomes a dead stat after certain point.
At that point, you either go for utility (Hell, let me get some more exploration so I can be a better forager while hunting), or pure PVP stats. And most people will opt in for PVP because that is more important.
Bottom line, the game loop is great. I am not talking shit about the game design.
Problematic part is that when you max out industry and top out the character with desired stats, there is nothing else to do except hoarding materials. And sure, it's fun to hoard but for how long?
Only other part of the game that will make you engaged will be PVP combat and grinding PVP materials. Why? Because even if you can dwarf all PVE content in game, you still need to push your stats to be of a similar value to other players who participate in PVP.
At that point, skill or just player numbers can make a difference.
Anyway, industry as such does not have infinite scaling. A lot of players love the industry grind, capping it makes no sense to me. It keeps things less competitive, it keeps things less interesting.

[dageir]

No real endgame ≠ No good endgame.
Once you max out and optimize the industry infrastructure and stockpile some materials there is no real point in grinding or doing most of the stuff.
Let's say you are a hunter in your village. You can raise your survival to 5000(I know, unrealistic number), but there is no point to it, beside slotting gear. Everything you might want you'll cap with 600 survival. So, what's the point of raising it more? It effectively becomes a dead stat after certain point.
At that point, you either go for utility (Hell, let me get some more exploration so I can be a better forager while hunting), or pure PVP stats. And most people will opt in for PVP because that is more important.
Bottom line, the game loop is great. I am not talking shit about the game design.
Problematic part is that when you max out industry and top out the character with desired stats, there is nothing else to do except hoarding materials. And sure, it's fun to hoard but for how long?
Only other part of the game that will make you engaged will be PVP combat and grinding PVP materials. Why? Because even if you can dwarf all PVE content in game, you still need to push your stats to be of a similar value to other players who participate in PVP.
At that point, skill or just player numbers can make a difference.
Anyway, industry as such does not have infinite scaling. A lot of players love the industry grind, capping it makes no sense to me. It keeps things less competitive, it keeps things less interesting.

I can see what you mean, but for many 600 survival is not something they aim for or has the time to aim for. We run out of things to do not because there is nothing more to do, but the game content is out of reach either because of limited time or limited interest in reaching those numbers. I have earlier advocated making a global trading system built in the game like Salem had/has, but not with the lame stalls. Should be like an auction house with acess for all. This addition would make the game interesting for far longer for more people since you could easily buy stuff by selling some raw materials (blueberries anyone?) or whatever.

[DonVelD]

No real endgame ≠ No good endgame.
Once you max out and optimize the industry infrastructure and stockpile some materials there is no real point in grinding or doing most of the stuff.
Let's say you are a hunter in your village. You can raise your survival to 5000(I know, unrealistic number), but there is no point to it, beside slotting gear. Everything you might want you'll cap with 600 survival. So, what's the point of raising it more? It effectively becomes a dead stat after certain point.
At that point, you either go for utility (Hell, let me get some more exploration so I can be a better forager while hunting), or pure PVP stats. And most people will opt in for PVP because that is more important.
Bottom line, the game loop is great. I am not talking shit about the game design.
Problematic part is that when you max out industry and top out the character with desired stats, there is nothing else to do except hoarding materials. And sure, it's fun to hoard but for how long?
Only other part of the game that will make you engaged will be PVP combat and grinding PVP materials. Why? Because even if you can dwarf all PVE content in game, you still need to push your stats to be of a similar value to other players who participate in PVP.
At that point, skill or just player numbers can make a difference.
Anyway, industry as such does not have infinite scaling. A lot of players love the industry grind, capping it makes no sense to me. It keeps things less competitive, it keeps things less interesting.

Facts. Also, most of the PVP comes from groups and factions which more or less cease to exist or stop being active after 3 months. So there isn't too much of a point to raise PVP stats either.

[Pills]

Anyway, industry as such does not have infinite scaling. A lot of players love the industry grind, capping it makes no sense to me. It keeps things less competitive, it keeps things less interesting.[/hide]

Bring back metal spiralling!

[ZoddAlmighty]

I can see what you mean, but for many 600 survival is not something they aim for or has the time to aim for. We run out of things to do not because there is nothing more to do, but the game content is out of reach either because of limited time or limited interest in reaching those numbers. I have earlier advocated making a global trading system built in the game like Salem had/has, but not with the lame stalls. Should be like an auction house with acess for all. This addition would make the game interesting for far longer for more people since you could easily buy stuff by selling some raw materials (blueberries anyone?) or whatever.

I would say that is very easy achievable with some mediocre gear and a specialized character. And that's what's needed in this game. Specialization.
What am I advocating would make trading meaningful again, because there will always be a next best axe, or next best raw piece of wood, or top Q wax.And in couple of months, those pieces will be obsolete and people will have to get new or grind new ones themself. Doesen't fucking matter.
The option to pursue next best thing will be there for people who do not want to be in the PVP meatgrinder and I am certain that it would affect player retention for the better.

[dageir]

I can see what you mean, but for many 600 survival is not something they aim for or has the time to aim for. We run out of things to do not because there is nothing more to do, but the game content is out of reach either because of limited time or limited interest in reaching those numbers. I have earlier advocated making a global trading system built in the game like Salem had/has, but not with the lame stalls. Should be like an auction house with acess for all. This addition would make the game interesting for far longer for more people since you could easily buy stuff by selling some raw materials (blueberries anyone?) or whatever.

I would say that is very easy achievable with some mediocre gear and a specialized character. And that's what's needed in this game. Specialization.
What am I advocating would make trading meaningful again, because there will always be a next best axe, or next best raw piece of wood, or top Q wax.And in couple of months, those pieces will be obsolete and people will have to get new or grind new ones themself. Doesen't fucking matter.
The option to pursue next best thing will be there for people who do not want to be in the PVP meatgrinder and I am certain that it would affect player retention for the better.

Yeah. Multi-alting gets tiresome for me. This "playthrough" I will use only one main character and a "key-character". If he dies, he dies.

[ZoddAlmighty]

Bring back metal spiralling!

I heard great things about that, but I also heard that encouraged botting. What I want is a more complex way in which we as players could affect quality of product from starting point (raw material) to end (refined item).
Maybe there should be a different way of calculating the quality itself. I really like the idea of quality nodes, it's just the type of thing that encourages PVP mindset. But it also makes the game to cap out really fast.
I do not know if it's relevant, but I would solve it like this.
A player can make a totem that gives +50q (base version) in area for specific thing, in this case it's a hunting totem. You need couple of hours to make the effect to activate so totem is vulnerable.
After totem pops out, the area get "blessed" and you have +50q to whatever you hunt in that area.
Now this is the good part. Totem only gives max quality. The node itself still plays a big role because the better the node, the higher potential quality you can have. So we do not devalue importance of nodes itself but emphasize them.
After we are done grinding, we use top Q bones (better than max base cap) to make a better quality totem, that we can activate for MORE +quality.
Of course, for you to be able to get that Q, you should have high enough Survival, or there is no point in pursuing that level of quality.
And this is how you make an infinite hunting loop.
This concept is something that I think could make the game loop more interesting industry wise. Ofcourse, I do not think its perfect and it's just an idea, but that is something I would like this game to have. And endless industry loop where you could always go for something higher.

[oleanna]

I can see what you mean, but for many 600 survival is not something they aim for or has the time to aim for. We run out of things to do not because there is nothing more to do, but the game content is out of reach either because of limited time or limited interest in reaching those numbers. I have earlier advocated making a global trading system built in the game like Salem had/has, but not with the lame stalls. Should be like an auction house with acess for all. This addition would make the game interesting for far longer for more people since you could easily buy stuff by selling some raw materials (blueberries anyone?) or whatever.

I would say that is very easy achievable with some mediocre gear and a specialized character. And that's what's needed in this game. Specialization.
What am I advocating would make trading meaningful again, because there will always be a next best axe, or next best raw piece of wood, or top Q wax.And in couple of months, those pieces will be obsolete and people will have to get new or grind new ones themself. Doesen't fucking matter.
The option to pursue next best thing will be there for people who do not want to be in the PVP meatgrinder and I am certain that it would affect player retention for the better.

I m agree with you, but a global auction house must be in a safe accessible area like providence. Because if you Can access it from anywhere or your base, you can sell everythink when you see a ram in front of your door. But as hermit I like the Idea to sell/buy thing like in Salem

[oleanna]

Bring back metal spiralling!

I heard great things about that, but I also heard that encouraged botting. What I want is a more complex way in which we as players could affect quality of product from starting point (raw material) to end (refined item).
Maybe there should be a different way of calculating the quality itself. I really like the idea of quality nodes, it's just the type of thing that encourages PVP mindset. But it also makes the game to cap out really fast.
I do not know if it's relevant, but I would solve it like this.
A player can make a totem that gives +50q (base version) in area for specific thing, in this case it's a hunting totem. You need couple of hours to make the effect to activate so totem is vulnerable.
After totem pops out, the area get "blessed" and you have +50q to whatever you hunt in that area.
Now this is the good part. Totem only gives max quality. The node itself still plays a big role because the better the node, the higher potential quality you can have. So we do not devalue importance of nodes itself but emphasize them.
After we are done grinding, we use top Q bones (better than max base cap) to make a better quality totem, that we can activate for MORE +quality.
Of course, for you to be able to get that Q, you should have high enough Survival, or there is no point in pursuing that level of quality.
And this is how you make an infinite hunting loop.
This concept is something that I think could make the game loop more interesting industry wise. Ofcourse, I do not think its perfect and it's just an idea, but that is something I would like this game to have. And endless industry loop where you could always go for something higher.

And a skill to track totem. To rise up the risk. So pve dude Can do totem if they have protection and people can spécialise in that kind of PvP like the mining system in Eve. You Can use Big mining vaissel but without protection you are easy to gank.

[LtTurtleshot]

I can't talk for everybody, but having alts made the game way less fun for me. Having to balance out my stats and not be a specialist made me do everything ob my own and really never got bored. I'm no sprucecap as all my attributes besides psyche is around 200 and I can easily take out enemies I want to take out, besides end game atuff, on my own. I get to cook and try to find so many differenf kinds of foods too.

I play with someone who basically does the same but we have different credos, I'm more of a carpenter/crafter ; she is more of a miner/blacksmith.

We just have fun taking care of our stuff, we don't try to hoard as many things as possible and we don't spend all our free time playing.

I think powerplaying, repeating the same task over and over is an unfun thing to do. Specialization can be fun and rewarding, but in the end the game is about "you do you", be what you wanna be.

Heck, I even dabble in making map-pixel art.

The game is never stale for me.

Stop powerplaying, maybe you'll find something you like in it. Also, I'm pretty sure most players don't powerplay so hard.