DevStream 2021-08-29, 19:00 UTC

Announcements about major changes in Haven & Hearth.

Re: DevStream 2021-08-29, 19:00 UTC

Postby jorb » Sun Aug 29, 2021 11:14 pm

Thank you for the stream, guys! YouTube upload here

Catch you in the next one!
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Re: DevStream 2021-08-29, 19:00 UTC

Postby vatas » Mon Aug 30, 2021 7:38 am

Image
I vote for all subsequent streams to have an actual development thing going on background, assuming it's not too much to handle while talking with the community.
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Re: DevStream 2021-08-29, 19:00 UTC

Postby shubla » Mon Aug 30, 2021 2:42 pm

vatas wrote:Image
I vote for all subsequent streams to have an actual development thing going on background, assuming it's not too much to handle while talking with the community.

Perhaps streams should be changed to be daily, so the community can supervise that devs won't just laze around and rub their sticks!
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Re: DevStream 2021-08-29, 19:00 UTC

Postby Troll_Shroom » Mon Aug 30, 2021 10:00 pm

vatas wrote:I vote for all subsequent streams to have an actual development thing going on background, assuming it's not too much to handle while talking with the community.

I can get behind this. Making higher resolution images is always nice.
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Re: DevStream 2021-08-29, 19:00 UTC

Postby SnuggleSnail » Wed Sep 01, 2021 9:23 am

proly not the best place to bring it up, but during the stream you seemed very adamant that you want realms to be in the game. I'm rly curious what positives you see from realms, or why you want them in the game? I feel like if it's just for larp reasons, larpers could just larp a realm without it being significantly backed up by mechanics.

From my perspective there has never been an instance of a realm doing something positive for the game(except realm chat), but allows for griefing on a massive scale nothing else is game comes close to, for example the following realms functionally griefing everybody they covered by turning off or never intending to have buffs:
motherland(world 11)
vegentable ninjas(world 11)
A.D.(world 11)
Loliconquest(world 11)
North Star(world 12)
Balder's Bra(world 12)
A.D.(world 12)
Kingdom of Ashes(world 12)
Wild West(World 12)
Korean realm I forget the name of(World 12)
Balder's Bra(world 13)
Arcanum(world 13)
Kentoo Region(world 13)
HELP(world 13)
Darkin's realm I forget the name(world 13)
Land of Lopez(world 13)

I think in some of these cases the realm owner simply got bored, overestimated the ability to maintain buffs, or didn't care about the long term health of their realm when they made it. Regardless there are certainly cases where it is unambiguous griefing for a large percentage of the playerbase, namely: Balder's Bra, Arcanum, Land of lopez, Kentoo Region, Wild West, Loliconquest, and motherland.

I basically only play this game to grief people, but I think the scale of people you can affect by griefing them with a realm and the low time investment make it very bad for the game. You shouldn't be able to effectively make tens or hundreds of people's villages worthless by running a steel bot, or a cairn bot, and then pressing the rescind button a few times - or just never making buff statues.

I think every iteration of realm has shown you guys are designing around the best case for player behavior, and every you've been shown people are going to be dickheads(Hi!) if you let them. The issue is the core concept, not the execution.
Also realm chat should be global chat
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Re: DevStream 2021-08-29, 19:00 UTC

Postby jorb » Wed Sep 01, 2021 9:39 am

As I said on the stream: Your complaint is with the realm buffs, not with the concept of being able to contest for larger swathes of territory.
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Re: DevStream 2021-08-29, 19:00 UTC

Postby SnuggleSnail » Wed Sep 01, 2021 9:49 am

Well, sure - but presumably a part of the core concept for realms is PVP and people caring about them enough to engage with them at all. If it's not realm buffs, it's something else.

If the reward is good in a meta sense, then it's mandatory - and it will just be an unfun obligation to factionbois, and to the plebs it will be another thing that keeps them down arbitrarily.. Even if it's just lack of access to a reward, it feels very similar to the current situation with buffs.

If the reward is not good, then nobody will engage with it, and it's functionally just bloat.

If the rewards are just larp, then I think that's bad too, even if larpers care for it. Because I will kill the larpers and ruin their kingdom for fun. The larpers willing to make the game more fun by engaging with mega-projects and the like should probably be protected, not made a target of.
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Re: DevStream 2021-08-29, 19:00 UTC

Postby iamahh » Wed Sep 01, 2021 12:40 pm

I heard some realms are going down because of maintenance costs and population naturally decaying. In that case made sense because they had way too many buffs and dwindling peasants.
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Re: DevStream 2021-08-29, 19:00 UTC

Postby SnuggleSnail » Wed Sep 01, 2021 12:47 pm

If you mean Arcanum it's probably the case that they don't have the passive XP gain to maintain all of the menhirs/grotesques they have, but realistically the number of actually good buffs is pretty small - and they likely could've just done away with mushroom kingdom & heraldic swans while keeping all the important stuff.

I'm a pretty firm believer that they are doing it on purpose as a prank like I did with Balder's Bra last world, but I don't have any inside knowledge to that effect. If they're doing it unintentionally, then they're simply incompetent. Being griefed by somebody's incompetence seems equal to being griefed by their malice in my mind, though.

IMO, with these kinds of things where a small portion of the playerbase gets to effect everybody the worst case for player behavior should be assumed regardless.
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Re: DevStream 2021-08-29, 19:00 UTC

Postby iamahh » Wed Sep 01, 2021 1:29 pm

yeah maybe it's trolling, or some key people stopped playing, I've never managed a realm so idk
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