Game Development: Starboard Bough

Announcements about major changes in Haven & Hearth.

Re: Game Development: Starboard Bough

Postby LordNanfoodle » Tue Nov 30, 2021 7:23 pm

This is all nice and all, but... when will we ever get squirrel breeding? :?
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Re: Game Development: Starboard Bough

Postby mvgulik » Wed Dec 01, 2021 9:16 am

jorb wrote:
  • Added "Fig Leaf", leaf, pants.

Pants ... what pants ?

(a leaf ain't a plant either)
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Re: Game Development: Starboard Bough

Postby meabeab » Wed Dec 01, 2021 11:14 am

mvgulik wrote:what pants ?

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Re: Game Development: Starboard Bough

Postby mvgulik » Wed Dec 01, 2021 6:36 pm

lol.
I should have known!
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Re: Game Development: Starboard Bough

Postby SnuggleSnail » Thu Dec 16, 2021 10:29 pm

So Loftar's DNS is fucked again which isn't that uncommon of an occurrence. Waited a few hours to be able to login, which could pretty reasonably result in the death for outlaws. After logging in I aggroed some invisible guy then crashed because I hadn't seen a fig leaf before.

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> Exception in thread "Haven UI thread" java.lang.RuntimeException: java.lang.RuntimeException: Delayed error in resource gfx/borka/leaf-fig (v1),

I think both the fact Loftar hosts his own DNS on his home internet, and the fact you explode the client if the game is missing a res file instead of using a placeholder are both retarded, but... IMO what's MORE retarded is that you willingly have these failure points but outlaw still exists.

I don't see how you can possibly justify this as not rly bad. The opportunities for people to die in this game because of technical difficulties, and specifically technical difficulties that are the fault of the devs are absurdly common. It's not even like outlaw does anything significant, it just provides opportunities to die crashes/DC/server crashes/power outages/internet outages.
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Re: Game Development: Starboard Bough

Postby pawnchito » Thu Dec 16, 2021 11:46 pm

SnuggleSnail wrote: the fact you explode the client if the game is missing a res file instead of using a placeholder are both retarded,


This persisting for so long is crazy dawg. Seems like a solvable problem with zero downsides. Hella frustrating even outside of combat situations.
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Re: Game Development: Starboard Bough

Postby VDZ » Fri Dec 17, 2021 12:55 am

pawnchito wrote:with zero downsides.

Now, I myself am a strong proponent of non-vital processes continuing to run even when unexpected failures occur, and gratuitously abuse catch-alls in my programming to localize failures and let my programs continue to function where reasonably possible, but this is sadly simply not true. The reason 'crash and burn' tends to be the default response to errors is because the state of a program is unpredictable after an unexpected failure occurs. For example, in a singleplayer game, a bug may corrupt your inventory. In that case it is better to have the game crash immediately than to let the player continue to play until they try to save, at which point either (part of) your inventory goes poof permanently, or if particularly unlucky the save itself becomes corrupted. You can ignore the failure itself, but it has a large chance of cascading into further failures (what if the missing asset tries to play an animation? What if you try to interact with missing assets? What if a missing asset gets damaged and thus changes color? etc etc), most of which are unpredictable as reasonable assumptions the programmer has made are suddenly no longer true.

That said, the Haven client is purely a client program with the server being authoritative and quite strict. Given that the client can't do much wrong (or this community would've abused the fuck out of it already) and staying in-game can be highly beneficial in many situations, printing a highly visible (non-blocking, but still annoying) error message encouraging the user to restart would in my opinion be better than force-closing the client immediately.
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Re: Game Development: Starboard Bough

Postby SnuggleSnail » Fri Dec 17, 2021 1:17 am

better crash the client and kill the player to prevent anything bad from happening
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Re: Game Development: Starboard Bough

Postby Nightdawg » Fri Dec 17, 2021 3:41 am

VDZ wrote:printing a highly visible (non-blocking, but still annoying) error message encouraging the user to restart would in my opinion be better than force-closing the client immediately.


Loftar literally has no idea what's causing the crashes, and won't give us a good environment to test it either (valhalla, which lacks 95% of the combat content we have in the normal world is not a good environment, nor is forcing us to grind characters for 3 months to lose them in the normal world).

The clien't doesn't "just force-close immediately" when it crashes. It gives you a crash report too. That crash report doesn't help him, all it says is "the nVidia driver causes it".
Having a message on screen saying "nVidia lmao" would be the same thing.
Forcing me to restart the client because I can't move any more is literally the same thing as it closing immediately, I'm still dead.

People need to understand the difference betwen dying from being unlucky/unskilled and dying because of something you have absolutely no control over whatsoever and they should stop trying to "figure out some way around it" when the core problem still remains and the "solution around it" doesn't fix anything.
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Re: Game Development: Starboard Bough

Postby telum12 » Fri Dec 17, 2021 3:54 am

VDZ, there's already a million try/catches and weakref checks because of the bs ad-hoc res-loading. You don't even have to make major changes, just deploy the res files with the client like virtually every other game.


Nightdawg, that's a completely different crash and is a full-on JVM crash not a normal crash. There would be no way to even display a message, the runtime environment is dead.
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