Game Development: Spy-with-Eye

[Southpaw]

I feel entitled saying this, but 20 min red hand still feels bad. It's like going from a husband who used to break my legs now only giving me a black eye. Better, but like, still bad. After a year of this when the novelty wares off I'm still going to resent it when I get forced to KO an alt or something and waste 20 minutes even if it's not an hour. 5 minutes felt fine to me.

agreed 100% right now as someone waiting off a 20 minute timer because i oopsie'd a cart

[Pommfritz]

I think there can't really be a time that's good for everyone.
(disclaimer: I gonna simplify a lot)
As a high tier player with lots of ressources you barely risk anything even if you get busted and KO'd etc. -> you should engage in as much risk here as possible to accumulate more stuff (or a bigger lead) (edit: but not versus other high tier players with similiar or more ressources) and put the population under pressure. Any red hand timer feels like a time waste even if you get "caught". removing the red hand timer would be very reasonable here.
As a mid tier player you have the most valuable stuff that you can get, some ressources but that's it. Most high tier players can fuck you up and also other mid tier players. You are really squeezed here in a strategic way shouldn't engage in much risk here also low tier players can grief you/call sronger friends/ extend your red hand timer etc. It's not as easy to recover here if you lose your gear or character. -> red handed timer are dangerous especially if you get caught so removing the red hand timer would kind of just give the mid tier players an advantage that they theoretically don't deserve.
As a low tier player you barely have anything of value and your character is replacable, you basically lose to almost anyone if you fight and even fighting with other low tier players could be good for you because you don't lose much but you could gain what they have. You should engage in as much risk as you can get away with here -> big red handed timer are also a waste of time because you risk your character a lot of the time and then have to wait, mostly nothing will happen and if so you couldn't care less and just make a new character (talking low in like unlocked all skills necessairy, barely any stats or gear).

If you don't engage in risk/crime as a high tier player you basically just collect ressources that other people will loot later
As a mid tier player you probably only want to be very opportunistic and take your spots
As a low tier player you are basically completely irrelevant for a long time and probably get looted later unless you get insanely lucky and somehow get big upgrades if you don't take risks.

At least this makes sense to me but to simplify I neglect any sort of skill (meaning I assume everyone plays optimally or is equally skilled) and base this model purely on the value of gear/loot you gain or have etc. Basically viewing hnh as a tournament or battle royale (which it is not, you can enjoy the game without doing anything really but it has components of tournaments or the like).

As a conclusion I have no clue what the best red hand timer would be and there is no way to make it good for everyone, for me: I sort of had to run with a 20min timer yesterday and it was very spooky but anything more than 20mins would have been retarded.

[VDZ]

I think there can't really be a time that's good for everyone.
(disclaimer: I gonna simplify a lot)
As a high tier player with lots of ressources you barely risk anything even if you get busted and KO'd etc. -> you should engage in as much risk here as possible to accumulate more stuff (or a bigger lead) (edit: but not versus other high tier players with similiar or more ressources) and put the population under pressure. Any red hand timer feels like a time waste even if you get "caught". removing the red hand timer would be very reasonable here.
As a mid tier player you have the most valuable stuff that you can get, some ressources but that's it. Most high tier players can fuck you up and also other mid tier players. You are really squeezed here in a strategic way shouldn't engage in much risk here also low tier players can grief you/call sronger friends/ extend your red hand timer etc. It's not as easy to recover here if you lose your gear or character. -> red handed timer are dangerous especially if you get caught so removing the red hand timer would kind of just give the mid tier players an advantage that they theoretically don't deserve.
As a low tier player you barely have anything of value and your character is replacable, you basically lose to almost anyone if you fight and even fighting with other low tier players could be good for you because you don't lose much but you could gain what they have. You should engage in as much risk as you can get away with here -> big red handed timer are also a waste of time because you risk your character a lot of the time and then have to wait, mostly nothing will happen and if so you couldn't care less and just make a new character (talking low in like unlocked all skills necessairy, barely any stats or gear).

If you don't engage in risk/crime as a high tier player you basically just collect ressources that other people will loot later
As a mid tier player you probably only want to be very opportunistic and take your spots
As a low tier player you are basically completely irrelevant for a long time and probably get looted later unless you get insanely lucky and somehow get big upgrades if you don't take risks.

At least this makes sense to me but to simplify I neglect any sort of skill (meaning I assume everyone plays optimally or is equally skilled) and base this model purely on the value of gear/loot you gain or have etc. Basically viewing hnh as a tournament or battle royale (which it is not, you can enjoy the game without doing anything really but it has components of tournaments or the like).

As a conclusion I have no clue what the best red hand timer would be and there is no way to make it good for everyone, for me: I sort of had to run with a 20min timer yesterday and it was very spooky but anything more than 20mins would have been retarded.

I don't think anybody's advocating the complete removal of red-handed. People teleporting away after committing crimes would be stupid. But what's the point of having it be 20 minutes rather than 5? If someone's not going to catch you in 5 minutes, they won't in 20 minutes either. If they do catch you in 5 minutes and you try to run, you'll still be running for 20 minutes (or probably longer if you don't just get wrecked) as you can't teleport while locked in combat.

[shubla]

Redhand should be 24 hours if you attack somebody without rage learned to prevent crime sprees.
Tell me 1 reason why not?
Thingwalls under contention and meteorites could have exclusion zone so that it would be shorter.

[telum12]

Redhand should be 24 hours if you attack somebody without rage learned to prevent crime sprees.
Tell me 1 reason why not?
Thingwalls under contention and meteorites could have exclusion zone so that it would be shorter.

Shubla stop posting jesus fucking christ.

1. Village X starts griefing Shubla's village.
2. Shubla starts sieging village X.
3. Non-rage alt starts bashing the ram.
4. Shubla kills the alt
5. Shubla gets ganked because he's an idiot and suggested making this a 24-hour redhand

There's a lot of situations where throw-away alts can be used to grief. Being punished that harshly to remove them is stupid.

[Pommfritz]

Redhand should be 24 hours if you attack somebody without rage learned to prevent crime sprees.
Tell me 1 reason why not?
Thingwalls under contention and meteorites could have exclusion zone so that it would be shorter.

because it's retarded

edit: to clarify xD
most of the time you can avoid someone else becoming red handed by simply building your base correctly so he can't just walk in and KO you. I think that are 90% of the cases where people get rekt why would you put a 24h timer on someone just because he almost gets griefed if he doesn't take the invitation to get a few cupboards of free pork meat ???????????????????

[Pommfritz]

I don't think anybody's advocating the complete removal of red-handed. People teleporting away after committing crimes would be stupid. But what's the point of having it be 20 minutes rather than 5? If someone's not going to catch you in 5 minutes, they won't in 20 minutes either. If they do catch you in 5 minutes and you try to run, you'll still be running for 20 minutes (or probably longer if you don't just get wrecked) as you can't teleport while locked in combat.

in 5mins you probably can't tell your friends or stronger neighbours or whatever to come and help you get some guy if you catch him red handed and you are way weaker nevermind them thingwalling correctly to cut you off in 5mins

i have no clue how long red handed should be the reason I said remvoing it for top tier players is that it's litterally their job to grief the world and accumulate more wealth if they play competetively and it really doesnt matter for other people if they are redhanded or not. I have no idea how long it should be or whatever, never said that, there are too many variables and different scenarios that I can't find anything fair with just red handed. edit: I don't mean actually removing it but a remove would not matter at all for them or for others

[Enjoyment_2]

as someone stated earlier:
the last man you should ask about changes in the punishment model - is actual criminal
if you do want to know what punishment would work - ask those who were criminals, but now not interesting in committing crimes (like Trollex).
If you're going to listen to Snail (and his band) on topic "how should we punish criminals (you)", don't be surprised they'll bring a ton of arguments for non-working mechanics which they can easily avoid. That's just the only thing they are interested in - to be not punished.

[VDZ]

in 5mins you probably can't tell your friends or stronger neighbours or whatever to come and help you get some guy if you catch him red handed and you are way weaker nevermind them thingwalling correctly to cut you off in 5mins

But what are the odds of still catching them if you give them a five minute headstart? I imagine that if you take 5 minutes to begin chasing the perpetrator, you're not going to catch them anyways.

[shubla]

Redhand should be 24 hours if you attack somebody without rage learned to prevent crime sprees.
Tell me 1 reason why not?
Thingwalls under contention and meteorites could have exclusion zone so that it would be shorter.

Shubla stop posting jesus fucking christ.

1. Village X starts griefing Shubla's village.
2. Shubla starts sieging village X.
3. Non-rage alt starts bashing the ram.
4. Shubla kills the alt
5. Shubla gets ganked because he's an idiot and suggested making this a 24-hour redhand

There's a lot of situations where throw-away alts can be used to grief. Being punished that harshly to remove them is stupid.

1. Village X starts griefing shublas village
2. Village X is more powerful than peaceful sprucecap shubla, shubla cant do shit

PVP is never used for anything else than griefing in this game, it is not a method of preventing griefing. Devs are retarded if they think otherwise. Non consenting PVP should just be completely removed from the game.
Devs should post their coords on forums and then see how well they can defend their base from griefers by using pvp mechanics.