Prelude: World 14

[Razzbbane]

Thanks for all the input. We had a long discussion about hunger, recognizing your concerns about having to grind all day erry day to maintain 300% Food Efficacy and came up with this instead of what we originally had suggested in OP:

• Reworked hunger
  
  • There is now only one tierless hunger meter, rather than one with seven distinct tiers. The new meter holds 1000 units of hunger, wheras the old meter tiers combined held 700. The hunger values on food dishes will thus be presented as ‰, rather than %.
  • Rate of Decay of the hunger meter, and Food Efficacy (FEP% bonus), is determined by where on the continuum of the meter you currently are, rather than by tier.
  • Hunger decays by the cube of the current effect level, rather than the square of it.
  • Maximum Food Efficacy is x3, and minimum is x1/3, a FEP bonus span from 300% to 33.333...%.
  • By removing the discrete tiers, since every piece of food eaten will now slow you down to some extent with no "freebies", we believe it will become a more nuanced question what the optimal hunger level is, hopefully abolishing the psychology of feeling that one has to always operate at the 300% level.

Significantly more elegant imho, and a change I am very happy with, but feel free to opine. Updating OP.

@Jorb you are making that system way too complicated, the difference between the tryhards and normal/casual players will be much higher with that system. Please consider not changing it

[SnuggleSnail]

@Jorb I know I'm screeching about spiraling a lot, so this probably seems like more hyperbole, but:


Just yeet satiations and hunger. From a power perspective spending 1,000 hours on gaining stats without time-gates is a much less effective use of time than spending 1,000 hours grinding an anvil. In a min/max sense it's basically griefing your own team.


You're putting spiraling back for the sake of the tryhards to have something to do with industry after 2 months, but from the perspective of the plebs there still isn't really any infinite grind like that. If you don't have the best or near best anvil spiraling your own cast is an insane waste of time for literally no benefit.


The current feasting system (hunger/satiations), when done optimally, has insanely short effective time-gates. You want to be eating like 20-30 pieces of food per hour instead of 5,000 pieces of food on the weekend. I really hate it, whereas during world 10 I kinda enjoyed tryhard raise my stats for like 4 days a month then not touching it the rest of the time.


It would not (really) affect balance, more people get an infinite grind to work towards, and it would make the feasting loop a lot more enjoyable, IMO.

[stickman]

...But if you got rid of satiations and hunger then this world would belong to only people who have bots to make food for them.


Jorb... What if you use your current system but add a way to store up free attribute charges per day. so the way it would work is Each day you get 3 free charges representing breakfast lunch and dinner... it doesn't matter how much you eat you are allowed to gain 3 attributes without affecting your hunger at all... and they store up to up several days worth to allow casuals to not miss out...so if you allow 7 days storage you can store 21 free attribute increases.
once you use up your free charges it uses the hunger meter as you have designed on a scale of 300->33%

in practice it would look like this:

A New player spawns in uses up ton of energy and can no long work... they gobble down tons of nuts, berries, fruits, roasted meat etc... not optomizing at all... they gain a lvl... normally this might have incured 40% of their hunger lvl but it doesn't affect it at all until they gain 3 attributes and then it starts counting. This way they can eat a bunch of high energy foods and not destroy their meter...

Pro player on the other hand... they eat their truffled, black peppered whale meat stuff and gain 3 attributes... then they start using their hunger too

I like a system like this because if you dont play for a week you can gorge yourself on some food to catch up abit and maintain your energy levels while you catch up on ingame chores...

I think a system like this would help out miners as well because you could eat low fep high energy food and keep your hunger in check.

Also maybe salt/quests could give you 1-3 meals charges instead of hunger %.

[SnuggleSnail]

...But if you got rid of satiations and hunger then this world would belong to only people who have bots to make food for them.

I really want you guys to understand: armor/weapon quality are WAY more important than stats. I would rather fight somebody with triple my stats and half my qualities over somebody with equal stats and qualities. I think this post exemplifies it a bit: viewtopic.php?f=39&t=72745&start=260#p905271 (and none of this even quantifies the economic benefits of having the best anvil, you can convert that into thousands of dollars or trade some shitty tools made on it for practically infinite of whatever in game resource)


IF THERE IS ANVIL SPIRALING, which it seems like there will be, you can infinitely raise the quality of your metal with no time gates. The world is going to belong to only people who have bots to do XYZ for them either way. Food balance doesn't matter anymore, at all. The only question is are these tedious time gates on feasting FUN, and I think EVERYBODY agrees it's not, it's just that a lot of people won't be able to fully conceptualize spiraling making things so imbalanced that trying to balance other areas is silly.

[The_Lich_King]

...But if you got rid of satiations and hunger then this world would belong to only people who have bots to make food for them.


Jorb... What if you use your current system but add a way to store up free attribute charges per day. so the way it would work is Each day you get 3 free charges representing breakfast lunch and dinner... it doesn't matter how much you eat you are allowed to gain 3 attributes without affecting your hunger at all... and they store up to up several days worth to allow casuals to not miss out...so if you allow 7 days storage you can store 21 free attribute increases.
once you use up your free charges it uses the hunger meter as you have designed on a scale of 300->33%

in practice it would look like this:

A New player spawns in uses up ton of energy and can no long work... they gobble down tons of nuts, berries, fruits, roasted meat etc... not optomizing at all... they gain a lvl... normally this might have incured 40% of their hunger lvl but it doesn't affect it at all until they gain 3 attributes and then it starts counting. This way they can eat a bunch of high energy foods and not destroy their meter...

Pro player on the other hand... they eat their truffled, black peppered whale meat stuff and gain 3 attributes... then they start using their hunger too

I like a system like this because if you dont play for a week you can gorge yourself on some food to catch up abit and maintain your energy levels while you catch up on ingame chores...

I think a system like this would help out miners as well because you could eat low fep high energy food and keep your hunger in check.

Also maybe salt/quests could give you 1-3 meals charges instead of hunger %.

I don't hate this idea ngl

[stickman]

so back in W3 there was no limits on feasting... i was one of a few people who could make the highest q thanes in the game and had my base on a gold mine. What ended up happening was because I could produce the highest q thanes everyone would trade me all their cheese... and i could eat it all because their was no limits... which is how i was able to get probably the highest str that world without having to produce any food myself. It just keeps snowballing.

Its most likely that major villages will have BOTH the highest quality gear AND the most food due to botting... If you have the highest q gear you can easily trade it for the food as well.

that post you links talks about doubling the damage... but you dont need to double it... you just need to do more then the opponents armor.

if person A has 500 str... and person B has 1250 str... thats about 25% more damage. if your opponent can cleave for 500 and you have 500 armor then you are only doing the armor pen value (so like 40 damage with hirdsman sword under new rules?)... if you can cleave for 625 and your opponent has 500 armor then you are dealing WAY WAY more then a 25% damage increase. its probably something like ~160 damage... which is like a 4x increase in damage not 25%. ANY damage advantage is a very big deal due to the way damage/armor is calculated (which should also be changed IMO).

[Pickard]

I would remove hunger quest rewards, because after salt nerf and overall eating nerf, quests becomes mandatory. You have to do it to not fall behind too much. Im personally hate quests, all people I play with dont like it too.

[xzo]

give them what they ask for, but not the way they want it
I like that new approach tbh, instead of flat 200/300% jump people will find optimal ways within and wont be forced to wait for the "flip"

people complaining about it being 260% on avg dont get the part that 13% nerf is actually huge in some cases

I would still prefer to see daily caps something like per Berthedin's post with early pool in about 500 stats and pool increased weekly, but this change is also fine!

[Sevenless]

I've long argued against the hunger mechanic for various reasons, and suggested various replacements (I'm mostly in favour of removing hunger and leaning into satiations entirely). But if we're keeping the hunger mechanic and using this new implementation salt needs a minor rework.

Could salt be retooled into a hunger prevention buff? That way at least you can eat all your salt then go feast instead of having to eat 3 pieces of food, eat salt, eat three pieces of food, eat salt.

Ultimately you still want to eat salt at the very top of the food % bonus, but that's true without the change I'm suggesting too. I don't think questing needs to be changed as much since it's a fairly long time commitment to go out questing, not something you really need to do between bites.

[Harthel]

Jorb... What if you use your current system but add a way to store up free attribute charges per day. so the way it would work is Each day you get 3 free charges representing breakfast lunch and dinner... it doesn't matter how much you eat you are allowed to gain 3 attributes without affecting your hunger at all... and they store up to up several days worth to allow casuals to not miss out...so if you allow 7 days storage you can store 21 free attribute increases.
once you use up your free charges it uses the hunger meter as you have designed on a scale of 300->33%

I like this idea of meal charges. +1