Prelude: World 14

Announcements about major changes in Haven & Hearth.

Re: Prelude: World 14

Postby jorb » Wed Aug 10, 2022 1:32 pm

noindyfikator wrote:@Jorbtar

are there any changes after all those comments?


There will be, yes.
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Re: Prelude: World 14

Postby The_Blode » Wed Aug 10, 2022 4:44 pm

*cue increased speculative uproar*
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Re: Prelude: World 14

Postby VDZ » Wed Aug 10, 2022 5:33 pm

The_Blode wrote:*cue increased speculative uproar*


Or we could just wait for 48 hours and get the answers. Not much point in speculating, particularly considering the discussion is very unlikely to cause any further changes this close to launch.
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Re: Prelude: World 14

Postby noindyfikator » Wed Aug 10, 2022 5:33 pm

Please don't forget to turn on meteorite. I remember last world you forgot to turn it on and we didn't have meteorite for like 2 months missing spear era etc.
W3 - W10 - Hermit / small plots with spruces
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Re: Prelude: World 14

Postby telum12 » Wed Aug 10, 2022 7:17 pm

VDZ wrote:Actually, while FEP requirement grows, the percentual increase keeps shrinking the further you get.
  • To gain a stat at 10 max stat costs you 10 FEPs.
  • To gain a stat when your highest is 20 costs you 20 FEPs, a 100% increase since you were at 10 stats.
  • At 30 stats, you need 30 FEPs to gain another stat, a 50% increase since you were at 20.
  • At 40 stats, you need 40 FEPs to gain another stat, a 34% increase since you were at 30.
  • At 500 stats, you need 500 FEPs to gain another stat, a 2% increase since you were at 490.
While the total amount of FEPs consumed to reach a certain level keeps increasing, the gaps between the stat gains keep getting closer and closer. In addition, there's also the variety bonus which is more likely to trigger more often as you have to consume more food, which even further reduces the gap between the 'levels'.

blablabla



The_Lich_King wrote:The percentage does not grow exponentially, it grows linearly and foods, plus food quality makes sure this growth always gets overshadowed.

Lets actually add exponential FEP growth so eventually FEP requirements will eclipse people's ability to meet them.


jfc ppl need to reconsider the maths syllabus in your countries. This "percentage increase" thing is legit the stupidest thing I've read on this forum, and that includes jalpha and shubla. All you're proving there is that the current system is not exponential, since percentage increases will always converge to zero unless the increase is at least exponential. That's the fucking point, christ...

FEP requirement is a series a_k=k.

The series is a_1+a_2+...+a_n = sum_{i=1}^{n} a_i sum_{i=1}^{n} i. This sum can be reduced to n(n+1)/2.

That is, going from attr 1 to n takes n(n+1)/2 FEP. If you did not fail basic maths, you may have already noticed that this is polynomial.

This means that the amount of FEP that your opponent needs to double you, for example, is 4x your own FEP. In fact, you can see example how much more FEP they need by simply plugging in y = ((x*F)((x*F)+1)/2) / (F(F+1)/2) where F is your FEP and x is how much more (multiplicatively) FEP your opponent has. You might be shocked, but this is polynomial.

Moreover, the STR damage calculation is a fourth root of STR. Here is an example:

You have 100 STR, for which you ate 5050 FEP (I'm assuming we start at 1 for simplicity). Your opponent has double your damage! Woah. How much FEP did he have to eat?

Ostr = opponent's str
100 = your str

(Ostr)^(1/4) = 2 * (100)^(1/4) <=> Ostr = 1600

Okay, so your opponent needs 1600 STR to double your damage. How much fep is that?

1600*(1600+1)/2 = 1280800 or 1.28 million FEP, while your sprucecap ass had to eat 5050 FEP. Cry me a river.

"Hey guys, FEP is linear these titans are running rampant hurrdurr"

EDIT: B12 q has a much bigger impact on cleave damage here, especially at higher STR. If you spruces weren't too bad you'd be complaining about spiralling, since q is the largest gap between spruces and faction bois, not stats, unless you're really bad at the game and don't have any stats at all.
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Re: Prelude: World 14

Postby jorb » Wed Aug 10, 2022 7:48 pm

Thanks for all the input. We had a long discussion about hunger, recognizing your concerns about having to grind all day erry day to maintain 300% Food Efficacy and came up with this instead of what we originally had suggested in OP:

  • Reworked hunger
    • There is now only one tierless hunger meter, rather than one with seven distinct tiers. The new meter holds 1000 units of hunger, wheras the old meter tiers combined held 700. The hunger values on food dishes will thus be presented as ‰, rather than %.
    • Rate of Decay of the hunger meter, and Food Efficacy (FEP% bonus), is determined by where on the continuum of the meter you currently are, rather than by tier.
    • Hunger decays by the cube of the current effect level, rather than the square of it.
    • Maximum Food Efficacy is x3, and minimum is x1/3, a FEP bonus span from 300% to 33.333...%.
    • By removing the discrete tiers, since every piece of food eaten will now slow you down to some extent with no "freebies", we believe it will become a more nuanced question what the optimal hunger level is, hopefully abolishing the psychology of feeling that one has to always operate at the 300% level.

Significantly more elegant imho, and a change I am very happy with, but feel free to opine. Updating OP.
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Re: Prelude: World 14

Postby TwentyThree » Wed Aug 10, 2022 7:52 pm

jorb wrote:Thanks for all the input. We had a long discussion about hunger, recognizing your concerns about having to grind all day erry day to maintain 300% Food Efficacy and came up with this instead of what we originally had suggested in OP:

  • Reworked hunger
    • There is now only one tierless hunger meter, rather than one with seven distinct tiers. The new meter holds 1000 units of hunger, wheras the old meter tiers combined held 700. The hunger values on food dishes will thus be presented as ‰, rather than %.
    • Rate of Decay of the hunger meter, and Food Efficacy (FEP% bonus), is determined by where on the continuum of the meter you currently are, rather than by tier.
    • Hunger decays by the cube of the current effect level, rather than the square of it.
    • Maximum Food Efficacy is x3, and minimum is x1/3, a FEP bonus span from 300% to 33.333...%.
    • By removing the discrete tiers, since every piece of food eaten will now slow you down to some extent with no "freebies", we believe it will become a more nuanced question what the optimal hunger level is, hopefully abolishing the psychology of feeling that one has to always operate at the 300% level.

Significantly more elegant imho, and a change I am very happy with, but feel free to opine. Updating OP.


Hell yeah.
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Re: Prelude: World 14

Postby DDDsDD999 » Wed Aug 10, 2022 7:53 pm

jorb wrote:Thanks for all the input. We had a long discussion about hunger, recognizing your concerns about having to grind all day erry day to maintain 300% Food Efficacy and came up with this instead of what we originally had suggested in OP:

  • Reworked hunger
    • There is now only one tierless hunger meter, rather than one with seven distinct tiers. The new meter holds 1000 units of hunger, wheras the old meter tiers combined held 700. The hunger values on food dishes will thus be presented as ‰, rather than %.
    • Rate of Decay of the hunger meter, and Food Efficacy (FEP% bonus), is determined by where on the continuum of the meter you currently are, rather than by tier.
    • Hunger decays by the cube of the current effect level, rather than the square of it.
    • Maximum Food Efficacy is x3, and minimum is x1/3, a FEP bonus span from 300% to 33.333...%.
    • By removing the discrete tiers, since every piece of food eaten will now slow you down to some extent with no "freebies", we believe it will become a more nuanced question what the optimal hunger level is, hopefully abolishing the psychology of feeling that one has to always operate at the 300% level.

Significantly more elegant imho, and a change I am very happy with, but feel free to opine. Updating OP.

Removing discrete tiers doesn't fix like any of the issues we've had with the system. The issue is constantly spamming salt/hunger quests benefits tryhards too much while inexperienced players get handicapped if they don't know/care what the best foods are.

Tying hunger to actual stat gain instead of types/amount of food eaten would solve a lot of this. And just removing salt/hunger quests because they promote 24/7 unhealthy sweatlord grindfesting.

Tho tbh I don't feel like I fully understand the changes, so I could be wrong. Just that making the bars continuous instead of tiers doesn't address anything.
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Re: Prelude: World 14

Postby SnuggleSnail » Wed Aug 10, 2022 7:55 pm

jorb wrote:Thanks for all the input. We had a long discussion about hunger, recognizing your concerns about having to grind all day erry day to maintain 300% Food Efficacy and came up with this instead of what we originally had suggested in OP:

  • Reworked hunger
    • There is now only one tierless hunger meter, rather than one with seven distinct tiers. The new meter holds 1000 units of hunger, wheras the old meter tiers combined held 700. The hunger values on food dishes will thus be presented as ‰, rather than %.
    • Rate of Decay of the hunger meter, and Food Efficacy (FEP% bonus), is determined by where on the continuum of the meter you currently are, rather than by tier.
    • Hunger decays by the cube of the current effect level, rather than the square of it.
    • Maximum Food Efficacy is x3, and minimum is x1/3, a FEP bonus span from 300% to 33.333...%.
    • By removing the discrete tiers, since every piece of food eaten will now slow you down to some extent with no "freebies", we believe it will become a more nuanced question what the optimal hunger level is, hopefully abolishing the psychology of feeling that one has to always operate at the 300% level.

Significantly more elegant imho, and a change I am very happy with, but feel free to opine. Updating OP.



I don't really see what this solves, but even if it solved everything please don't make me do a fuckload of math to understand the most basic aspects of how to play the game.
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Re: Prelude: World 14

Postby GamingRAM » Wed Aug 10, 2022 8:00 pm

jorb wrote:Thanks for all the input. We had a long discussion about hunger, recognizing your concerns about having to grind all day erry day to maintain 300% Food Efficacy and came up with this instead of what we originally had suggested in OP:

  • Reworked hunger
    • There is now only one tierless hunger meter, rather than one with seven distinct tiers. The new meter holds 1000 units of hunger, wheras the old meter tiers combined held 700. The hunger values on food dishes will thus be presented as ‰, rather than %.
    • Rate of Decay of the hunger meter, and Food Efficacy (FEP% bonus), is determined by where on the continuum of the meter you currently are, rather than by tier.
    • Hunger decays by the cube of the current effect level, rather than the square of it.
    • Maximum Food Efficacy is x3, and minimum is x1/3, a FEP bonus span from 300% to 33.333...%.
    • By removing the discrete tiers, since every piece of food eaten will now slow you down to some extent with no "freebies", we believe it will become a more nuanced question what the optimal hunger level is, hopefully abolishing the psychology of feeling that one has to always operate at the 300% level.

Significantly more elegant imho, and a change I am very happy with, but feel free to opine. Updating OP.


To clarify does this mean eating something will cut down the 300% multiplier by percentage? Say eating something at the full 300% would drop it down to say, 297%?
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