Game Development: World 14

[SnuggleSnail]

During interviews major game devs always say player feedback usually right about problems, and almost never right about solutions. They would see that 90% of the playerbase hates winter and put fixing it on the top of the priority list, but they would disregard every specific suggestion on how to fix it. The way they talk about it so ubiquitously in interviews makes me pretty confident the vast majority of successful developers do this.

I'm pretty sure the reason Jorbtar doesn't do it this way is because they are not good enough at understanding what will be fun for people from various playstyles. 1:1 suggestions from players end up being better than them interpreting what they don't like and fixing it. They're just REALLY bad at game theory. Imagine unironically falling for the traveling merchant meme. FOR YEARS.

[vatas]

Imagine unironically falling for the traveling merchant meme. FOR YEARS.

Context: certain people where able to market the said meme by using some form of "Fast Travel bad, locality good" which doesn't sound that bad to an average player.

One of the main proponents of this apparently quit the entire game back in w13 because his market was raided. He had allowed VANDALISM* in a public area, allowing people to build crime alt HFs there and completely bypass visitor status.

VDZ does give a decent defense of the guy in the situation: one seemingly miniscule mistake and entire public project, you built, is burnt to the ground.

You can call the guy incompetent, but that implies the threshold for "competence" might be too high.

*There's some slight sense why he may have thought this was necessary/useful; back then laying down a stockpile was a Vandalism action.

[jock]

Imagine unironically falling for the traveling merchant meme. FOR YEARS.

Context: certain people where able to market the said meme by using some form of "Fast Travel bad, locality good" which doesn't sound that bad to an average player.

One of the main proponents of this apparently quit the entire game back in w13 because his market was raided. He had allowed VANDALISM* in a public area, allowing people to build crime alt HFs there and completely bypass visitor status.

VDZ does give a decent defense of the guy in the situation: one seemingly miniscule mistake and entire public project, you built, is burnt to the ground.

You can call the guy incompetent, but that implies the threshold for "competence" might be too high.

*There's some slight sense why he may have thought this was necessary/useful; back then laying down a stockpile was a Vandalism action.

The main problem here is more that the perm system tries to do everything with so few options, so cases where this happens will continue to occur because they refused to add in a reasonable and clear permission system.

Simple things like lift/use rather than a combined theft, Enter/look inside than combine rummage or lead, build etc. All of these systems rare actions that are inside overarching action holders. Then they wonder why perm system is so hard to actually utilise for towns to be real town or markets to be better functional.

[vatas]

The main problem here is more that the perm system tries to do everything with so few options, so cases where this happens will continue to occur because they refused to add in a reasonable and clear permission system.

Simple things like lift/use rather than a combined theft, Enter/look inside than combine rummage or lead, build etc. All of these systems rare actions that are inside overarching action holders. Then they wonder why perm system is so hard to actually utilise for towns to be real town or markets to be better functional.

You almost certainly hit the nail on the head.

Another example, this case:

A) OP wanted to allow people to enter claim and open/close fence gates, so he had to give tresspassing/rummaging.
B) These permissions allow people to also enter buildings and look into containers, so he locked them.
C) Turns out, people are allowed to lockpick buildings and containers because that is covered by "Rummaging."

Moving lockpicking to Theft (as OP requested) would be basically just whack-a mole/band-aid fix at best.

[roskuwacz]

About the permission system..

You can't set up right permissions on public cauldron so it will be not stolen and it will be fully usable

[vatas]

About the permission system..

You can't set up right permissions on public cauldron so it will be not stolen and it will be fully usable

Elaborations:
1) You can put fuel and light the cauldron.
2) You can NOT use barrel with the cauldron, even to just put water in
3) You CAN put in water with bucket/glassjug/etc. (Meaning point 2 is not justified by "not allowing people to put in crap water to ruin good water.")
4) Giving people permission to use the cauldron inventory would of course give people the right to just grab the cauldron and take it away.

[Kwing]

opinions on what would make this game good vary to such an extreme that i dont think jorb could ever satisfy more than 20% of the player base with any change.

IMHO: Jorbtar & CO don't give a shit (don't care, not interested in).

- Don't like that game client consumes 100% CPU and 300% or memory? That's players' problems, not Jorbstar. On Jorbtar's computer everything works fine.
- Upcoming protocol change or new type or resources introduced, and 3rd party clients have to be updated? That's their problem.
- 90% players want to grow potatoes in safe environment? That's their problem - Lofrb just want to watch how do they kill each other.

Bottomline.
H&H (and Salem too) are not products for consumers. This is hobby of 2 people who just want to write code and to draw textures infinitely.

[Fostik]

IMHO: Jorbtar & CO don't give a shit (don't care, not interested in).

- Don't like that game client consumes 100% CPU and 300% or memory? That's players' problems, not Jorbstar. On Jorbtar's computer everything works fine.
- Upcoming protocol change or new type or resources introduced, and 3rd party clients have to be updated? That's their problem.
- 90% players want to grow potatoes in safe environment? That's their problem - Lofrb just want to watch how do they kill each other.

Bottomline.
H&H (and Salem too) are not products for consumers. This is hobby of 2 people who just want to write code and to draw textures infinitely.

I mean, hafen system requirements are far below the average performance capabilities of modern personal computer or laptop. Why on earth did you decide that any game developers owe you to develop something that should run exactly on your low performance setup?

[SnuggleSnail]

I have a $3000 less than 2 years old computer and I get unplayably low FPS in some places on vanilla.

I don't think yeboi is right about why they make the decisions they do, but he's pretty clearly right that their first priority isn't a playable game >> viewtopic.php?f=48&t=74504&sid=d9b85dcd58fbddab342ba5dead443c58#p920440

Nobody whose goal is consumer first would let in-game time exist and actively mislead players for a decade+ just because they don't like the idea of non-round numbers. Winter, boulders, no fast travel, etc&etc

[Ganjastyle]

The topic you linked contains some sort of discussion, while if loftar didnt care as much as you try to make it look, he could just say "ye boi my game my rules now drop it".

and ye, W15 wen.