Game Development: Darkwood Gilding

[ItsFunToLose]

There are ways to keep pvp in haven without enforcing it on pve players.
If I remember correctly Dis once set up a peace grid in legacy, where there was a common understanding that no one did pvp inside and left the people in there to live in peace.
Perhaps haven could benefit from such a system. A continent left to be peaceful, not set up by players but by the devs of course to make sure its safe.
Where those of us that just wants to build nice and calm places can do so, without having to take into consideration the forceful pvp groups that abuse every mechanic they can think of.

If you're going to have PvE continents with dev-enforced game-engine hard-coded rules disallowing PvP, then the quality of every object on that continent needs to be capped at 10, and even then, some items would probably need to be excluded from existing there, like all localized resources, etc
Like a tutorial island where you can play a singleplayer larp fantasy to your heart's content and learn the game's mechanics at your own pace, but fuck off if you think it's okay to export items from that world into the real game and have them mean anything.

Honestly, a q10 tutorial island doesn't sound completely terrible. I don't have any PvP ambitions, and I'd still never play on it. But anyone complaining about being killed and extorted for hats can legitimately be told to just fuck off on over to the tutorial island.

Like everyone spawns on a centrally located, pregenerated/designed valhalla island. Things like tree products regenerate much more quickly or are infinite in supply to avoid the "i can't find birch bark" problem when everyone starts in the same area. once you leave you can never come back, like, after you cross the threshhold sailing away in your dugout, it disappears into the veil and is replaced by open ocean, never to be seen again. Another plane of existence that you start your journey on and can never go back to. The entire character creation process can be extended to be this, and instead of randomly spawning into the world, you sail out into the unknown. You can now remove wilderness beacons and all of the alt abuse that comes with it, friends can start their journey together comfortably. content and quality could have a radial component that has a small baseline increase as you move away from this center.

I don't give a fuck how hard it is for you to get your 15 alts to your base in the future. Your abusive problem, not mine, and development should absolutely not be catering to the multiboxing subset of the community that has a triple monitor setup running 4 clients with another computer in the basement running 8 bots, but then again, I don't know what your metrics are, maybe that exact subset of the population is driving 90% of your business income through subscriptions and verifications on 10 accounts each. Then by all means, carry on.

[Nikitan83]

If you're going to have PvE continents with dev-enforced game-engine hard-coded rules disallowing PvP, then the quality of every object on that continent needs to be capped at 10, and even then, some items would probably need to be excluded from existing there, like all localized resources, etc
Like a tutorial island where you can play a singleplayer larp fantasy to your heart's content and learn the game's mechanics at your own pace, but fuck off if you think it's okay to export items from that world into the real game and have them mean anything.

Honestly, a q10 tutorial island doesn't sound completely terrible. I don't have any PvP ambitions, and I'd still never play on it. But anyone complaining about being killed and extorted for hats can legitimately be told to just fuck off on over to the tutorial island.

Well I don't think it has to be neither capped nor sink into ocean. But I agree that some things would require a bigger effort to get, but that it goes both ways.
Let's say for example, that if peacegriders wants high q metal then they'll have to venture into the danger zone, mine it out and not be able to port with it to hf, but rather travel back manually with it thus risking to lose it all, be it ores or their lives to Knarr raiders and pvp people.
Perhaps animal quality is capped on peacegrid, meaning if we want those high q bones we need to go hunt amongst pvp'er. This can be extended to a lot of things.
And as a suggestion perhaps on pvp land the garden pots are not thriving thus giving room for possible trades between the pvp and pve groups.
As well as other things.

I say the peacegid needs no more of a cap than fighter stats do. Yet a lot of us wont ever min/max the game to stand a proper chance in pvp encounters.
What I think it comes down to is how there is different views of the game. Some (the majority) play without the pvp aspect and some do nothing but the pvp aspect.
One shouldn't hold the other one back. If pve people want to grind quality and set up trades and sell armor and weapons or tools they can and should do that, same as any pvp group can and should.
I think we can agree that low player retention is bad, this drops when you lose too much, such as a base, or due to daily camping at the walls.
I'm not against pvp, not at all. But I do feel it is badly balanced in haven, and easily abusive.

[Clemins]

If you're going to have PvE continents with dev-enforced game-engine hard-coded rules disallowing PvP, then the quality of every object on that continent needs to be capped at 10, and even then, some items would probably need to be excluded from existing there, like all localized resources, etc
Like a tutorial island where you can play a singleplayer larp fantasy to your heart's content and learn the game's mechanics at your own pace, but fuck off if you think it's okay to export items from that world into the real game and have them mean anything.

Honestly, a q10 tutorial island doesn't sound completely terrible. I don't have any PvP ambitions, and I'd still never play on it. But anyone complaining about being killed and extorted for hats can legitimately be told to just fuck off on over to the tutorial island.

Well I don't think it has to be neither capped nor sink into ocean. But I agree that some things would require a bigger effort to get, but that it goes both ways.
Let's say for example, that if peacegriders wants high q metal then they'll have to venture into the danger zone, mine it out and not be able to port with it to hf, but rather travel back manually with it thus risking to lose it all, be it ores or their lives to Knarr raiders and pvp people.
Perhaps animal quality is capped on peacegrid, meaning if we want those high q bones we need to go hunt amongst pvp'er. This can be extended to a lot of things.
And as a suggestion perhaps on pvp land the garden pots are not thriving thus giving room for possible trades between the pvp and pve groups.
As well as other things.

I say the peacegid needs no more of a cap than fighter stats do. Yet a lot of us wont ever min/max the game to stand a proper chance in pvp encounters.
What I think it comes down to is how there is different views of the game. Some (the majority) play without the pvp aspect and some do nothing but the pvp aspect.
One shouldn't hold the other one back. If pve people want to grind quality and set up trades and sell armor and weapons or tools they can and should do that, same as any pvp group can and should.
I think we can agree that low player retention is bad, this drops when you lose too much, such as a base, or due to daily camping at the walls.
I'm not against pvp, not at all. But I do feel it is badly balanced in haven, and easily abusive.

If this idea was added in, the next thing people would start whining about would be "Why can't I have nice Q things without entering the PVP zone, I don't want to fight or risk anything blah blah blah." Then the whole conversation will revolve back around to "pvp bad". If the fundamental issue anyone not currently participating in PVP or the desire to do, this does not even come close to fixing it. Personally, I like the idea only because it means it wont effect me since I'll be in the normal continent and playing the game as it is right now, this will just serve to further handicap those who are already scared of pvp. I'd like to see some more structured tutorial for everything in the game, perhaps in a Runescape style "tutorial island" style zone that goes over all the important fundamentals of the game such as Q growth, combat in PvPvE, base security, the purpose and effect of attributes, the importance of food etc. If people knew a little more about the game as it currently stands, perhaps it would promote more constructive criticism on fine tuning it's mechanics, rather than scraping them outright in favor for how (X) game does (Y) better.

[DonVelD]

Jorb has literally just said that he wants to make a game that doesn't guarantee you 100% safety. Can we just stop talking about the dev approved baby zone? Try to learn how to play the game. Taking small steps into removing parts of PVP just to get on a slippery slope into deleting the whole PVP is rly gay, thanks.

[Zentetsuken]

Jorb has literally just said that he wants to make a game that doesn't guarantee you 100% safety.

jorb has also used dev commands to delete badgers on live stream more than once

I think this desire is open for interpretation

[Sephiron]

Didn't the first of first worlds ever have like a central zone around the RoB that was relatively safe, but everything was low quality, and as you move away from the center the animals get more dangerous but higher in quality? Look up "Haven and hearth mordor". That was a kind of cool system. People settling around the center wouldn't have easily accessible high quality materials, but would be safe from animals (In this case other players?) and people who chose to live on the edges had 200q bears always outside their palisades. Idk, could be a viable starting point for a system like this, but I don't have the skills or patience to bother writing up a more in-depth idea for this that won't get me persecuted by the forum militia

[Audiosmurf]

Didn't the first of first worlds ever have like a central zone around the RoB that was relatively safe, but everything was low quality, and as you move away from the center the animals get more dangerous but higher in quality? Look up "Haven and hearth mordor". That was a kind of cool system. People settling around the center wouldn't have easily accessible high quality materials, but would be safe from animals (In this case other players?) and people who chose to live on the edges had 200q bears always outside their palisades. Idk, could be a viable starting point for a system like this, but I don't have the skills or patience to bother writing up a more in-depth idea for this that won't get me persecuted by the forum militia

Bring back civilization levels

[Uriel]

Baby zones and civ lvls are bad idea.

[terechgracz]

Baby zones and civ lvls are bad idea.

IMO they arent bad but they don't solve PvP and PvE being unfun.

[Sevenless]

The problem with any kind of location based balancing is the fact that you don't move in haven. You just quit if you're forced into another area because a village itself constitutes hundreds of hours of time spent building it up. Finding/learning local nodes for animals, clay, water. Tunnels dug in the mine and mine layers dropped. Houses, cupboards, walls, terraforming. Establishing local politics and frienships. And that's just the things you can't move, a lot of what you "can" move ends up eating 10s more hours if you try to bring it all instead of losing all but the most valuable.

Just like people don't really move to a great realm if one shows up. They just whine about it not covering them and complain if their current realm sucks.