Crop quality keeps dropping despite high farm level.

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Re: Crop quality keeps dropping despite high farm level.

Postby Zirikana » Wed Feb 02, 2011 4:22 am

Zamilpen wrote:reinforced by their neighbors should it fall behind


I see, so Vroom's simulation is naturally going to account for those few lucky tiles that yield three seeds of increased q from the original... I'm sure a clean, closed form analytical solution for the system is not too difficult, but why bother if the simulation looks kosher, right? :)

At any rate, the current system seems to be exactly what is wanted, outside of those who wish to see more dramatic, immediate effects from planting high q seeds in low q soil, or vice-versa.
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Re: Crop quality keeps dropping despite high farm level.

Postby Crador » Wed Feb 02, 2011 7:06 am

1. You don't need to be a math genius to understand, that relatively large field (10*10, for i.e.) will be enough to get stable +1 increase of plants QL (overall zero at some harvests, overall +2 at others).
You plant 100 seeds. You harvest 300. [-5,+2] mean you have 25% chance for positive QL effect. 25% from 300 is 75. 75 of +1,+2 seeds. And you get 12,5% chance for zero QL effect, it's 37,5 seeds. As result, in avarage, you get 100 new seeds with 0 to +2 QL from past harvest. Stable growth on ANY soil QL.
2. (soilQL+seedQL)/2 is not a softcap. It's a hardcap. This way your seeds will never get over (soilQL+10). That would kill any "ability to advance" and will create strict borders. Not to mention that those, who are not sitting on QL 90 soil will suck a lot.
3. Current system's main flaw is that QL 90 soil only gives good start, but does't actually matters later in game. You'll need 18 harvests to get to QL 90 and 23 harvests to get to QL 100. While QL 30 soil will need 36 harvests (in best case, 66 harvests in avarage case) 'till QL 90 and 41-71 harvests 'till QL 100. So, in half of year there will be no difference on which QL soil do you start farming. You will be able to buy QL 100 seeds, plant them anywhere and get your +1 (avarage) QL at every harvest.

The only effect of this "new farming system" currently is just a headstart for serious groups, who was bothered enough to find QL 90 soil. They will get good harvests (= food, animals = FEP = everything) faster, then others. A month later from today, i'll buy QL 100 seeds from any of lucky high QL soil owners and plant it on my farm. And we'll be on same level from that point. Meanwhile i can spend my time on anything else, like collecting cavebulbs, which will be priced well month later. So, what's the point in new system? To make strong factions stronger earlier? To make zerg-rush prevail over smart pre-planning? To make just "any" major change just to keep people interest in game?

Or am i missing something important?
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Re: Crop quality keeps dropping despite high farm level.

Postby Avu » Wed Feb 02, 2011 7:35 am

You're assuming people will sell you their seeds.
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Re: Crop quality keeps dropping despite high farm level.

Postby Crador » Wed Feb 02, 2011 7:39 am

Avu wrote:You're assuming people will sell you their seeds.

- i am sure there are "people" around, not only power-craving something-to-someone-virtually-prooving griefing nazi shitheads around. I have actually met them. Pity that you have't.
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Re: Crop quality keeps dropping despite high farm level.

Postby Avu » Wed Feb 02, 2011 3:03 pm

You must be new to the internet.
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Re: Crop quality keeps dropping despite high farm level.

Postby Zamilpen » Wed Feb 02, 2011 7:53 pm

If they do, it's not going to be cheap. Giving someone else a headstart in this world isn't something given lightly.
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Re: Crop quality keeps dropping despite high farm level.

Postby Vroomfondle » Wed Feb 02, 2011 11:16 pm

Crador wrote:2. (soilQL+seedQL)/2 is not a softcap. It's a hardcap. This way your seeds will never get over (soilQL+10). That would kill any "ability to advance" and will create strict borders. Not to mention that those, who are not sitting on QL 90 soil will suck a lot.


How about something like (seedQ*2 + soilQ)/3 with +/-x ? x can be adjusted before and after soilQ to limit improvement as needed. Maybe +/-4 before soilQ and +/-2 after

Crador wrote:3. Current system's main flaw is that QL 90 soil only gives good start, but does't actually matters later in game. You'll need 18 harvests to get to QL 90 and 23 harvests to get to QL 100. While QL 30 soil will need 36 harvests (in best case, 66 harvests in avarage case) 'till QL 90 and 41-71 harvests 'till QL 100. So, in half of year there will be no difference on which QL soil do you start farming. You will be able to buy QL 100 seeds, plant them anywhere and get your +1 (avarage) QL at every harvest.

The only effect of this "new farming system" currently is just a headstart for serious groups, who was bothered enough to find QL 90 soil. They will get good harvests (= food, animals = FEP = everything) faster, then others. A month later from today, i'll buy QL 100 seeds from any of lucky high QL soil owners and plant it on my farm. And we'll be on same level from that point. Meanwhile i can spend my time on anything else, like collecting cavebulbs, which will be priced well month later. So, what's the point in new system? To make strong factions stronger earlier? To make zerg-rush prevail over smart pre-planning? To make just "any" major change just to keep people interest in game?

Or am i missing something important?


I think what you may be missing is that it was intended to be a nerf. Farming was over powered last map, and needed to be pulled back a bit. It has done that without being too limiting. Loftar could have easily just went -5/+2 across the board, and soil would still be a one use resource. It is an improvement even though it might not be what everyone (myself included) would consider ideal.
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