Personal Claim Abuse

[LordD1]

We basically spent over 10,000 bricks, thousands of wrought, steel and bunch of manpower to take control of this node. However, there is a personal claim preventing us from ever being able to use the node because the previous owners have alts logged out in the personal claim with the intent of vandalizing the node over and over when we aren't watching it. We can't prevent them from stopping their salty attacks and clearly have stated they only will accept to drop the personal claim if we pay them real life money which clearly will never happen.

According to the size of the pclaim it shows we need to statue enough to get 90 million authority (4500 statues) to remove it. Is this really what needs to happen for us to become the real owners of this claim? If we really have to spend that much steel into statues we could just as well statue the whole world. If we end up doing this, I don't want to hear any complaints about us doing so.

Couldn't we just get a simple fix where the lawspeaker could bash the personal claim totem if the village claim covered it, not just simply on top the pclaim, but spreads over the totem itself. Right now its completely retarded how much effort you would need to go through because someone placed down a 600x600 personal claim (3.6 milion lp). On top of that we have been healing our HHP loss by the attempts to try place down signs, theft our bounty, bash old junk and terraform the area. It feels as if we spent all this time taking a node that can never really become ours unless we break the game with world statuing.

We raided it completely fair and square, and have earned the right to use the node as we see fit. However, because of the massive pclaim we will never actually own it unless we place statues all around the world to declaim it. I don't think this was intended that nodes could never actually be obtained by simply breaching their walls and taking down their idols. Due to the HHP loss, it makes it nearly impossible to do much with the node as we will be constantly healing.

The main issue though, is the fact they will always have their alts logged out inside the walls.

[TeckXKnight]

Would it be possible to just cover every single tile with objects to block logging in? It's a pclaim so they can't teleport back to the totem either, they'd have to spawn in the wilderness if they did try to login there. Presumably you've also broken every single hearthfire, so they can't just teleport back either. Not claiming this is a reasonable or practical solution, but it seems better than either of the options you've listed.

[LordD1]

Would it be possible to just cover every single tile with objects to block logging in? It's a pclaim so they can't teleport back to the totem either, they'd have to spawn in the wilderness if they did try to login there. Presumably you've also broken every single hearthfire, so they can't just teleport back either. Not claiming this is a reasonable or practical solution, but it seems better than either of the options you've listed.

Problem is, we have to vandalize over 50k tiles for terraforming.
Do you know how long it takes to make sure signs are placed correctly so no one can log inside an area that large?

Not to mention you lose HHP for every sign you place down.
And, every time we want to use the node we have to remove these signs..


EDIT: For those of you who do not quite understand how much ground 4500 statues will cover lets look at a picture

All of our statues would cover about this much of the world

[Ninijutsu]

I recommend you give up.

[LadyV]

It's a tricky situation. I don't see many solutions without weakening p-claims to a point they are not as worthwhile. Maybe the games needs an option for such huge claims. Would it be reasonable to have a contest the claim option on claims over a certain size and if the owner does not touch the claim stake in a certain period you have an option to reduce the claim over time?

ie. A super claim is contested so you build your v-claim over its claim stake and then if conditions are not met the claim begins to lose size at a set rate, like a normal village drain. However if claim owner can physically touch the stake the process stops?

Its not a perfect solution but it sort of fits squatters rights field of thought.

Other than that its really what Teck mentioned or one by one eliminating the alts inside.

[mvgulik]

"if we pay them real life money" ... If you have some hard data of this, you could try to see if the Dev's might be inclined to help. I know, small change. (If all other in-game suggestions don't help.)

(They can be in-game-pricks all they want, but trying to get real money out of it, is crossing the game-line in my view.)

[Metruption]

Have a bot waiting around to kill them

[Xcom]

Its truly a shame we don't have small fixes like these before hafen. This game still have another good few months on its legs and probably would be worth the small amount of tweaks to make basic changes that would make this game more enjoyable for the remainder.

[borka]

What's the use of investing in pclaims when they don't help you in protecting against unfriendly takeover?

Thomas you remember the area i was in W6 - remember the vclaim DIS had made overall the world - the only way to avoid that those vclaims are able to kill your property is to make them huge so that the investment for vclaimers in Auth and materials are just too high - that's a lesson i learned in last world.

And btw. it's the only counter measure a non botter can take against botters to keep his property ... so it's not abuse but totally legit in my view.

While i would always be ok under certain circumstances to make a fair ingame deal for giving up my property.
Aslong you'd ask before "square and fair" raiding me if not there'd be resistance to the max (which would include sabotage and vandalizing a node).
I had my experience with an attempt of unfriendly take over in W4 and seen what resistance (with some good outsiders help) brings.

Asking for RL money sure is not legit but i won't call it abuse to keep the pclaim - may be you didn't offer enough ingame compensation. Asking the Devs for a fix isn't a solution because it matters us all.

If you're in need for a neutral mediator / negotiator shoot me a PM.

oh btw. if you'd try to cover that part of the world with statues keep in mind you'd need a lotta more statues because of my anti take over claims - and be sure i'd do my best to support my neighbours to be able to invest in theirs too

[Xcom]

I must disagree borka. Just because you placed a personal claim doesn't mean that the land you claimed is permanently yours indefinitely. The whole idea about permanency is quite overpowered and is clearly demonstrated with the small effort of LP into personal claims vs extreme effort of removal needing spamming enough statues to spam the whole world. By this logic of permanency we could have seen 100% vaults and indestructible bases a legitimate tactic in world 6. Clearly personal claims don't give you full control but it gives enough of a deterrent.

Most people will never raid for the sake of bashing your village idol and build a new village idol, protect it and show up to destroy your personal claim. On the other hand if your hand is forced to remove a huge p-claim they will end up statuing the world destroying anything that there v-claim comes in contact with.

I discussed this in length with Thomas and the idea of protecting your personal claim stake would be enough of a compromise to prevent people from simply remove you from the map. Authority could be used to remove a claim stake from a far giving the old system some advantages as well. But giving 100% control to the owner simply because they had enough LP to drop into a p-claim is just imbalanced and results in negative outcomes in the long run.

Having p-claim advantage is big enough for anyone wanting to keep on to it as it can be used to rub it into the foes that just took your node. At some point they could take the node back at 1/10th the advantage because the ability to have alts inside the walls including the fact no scents needs to ever be left. All this at a simple cost of few milion LP and make sure you login 1ns a month.

By the logic of node ownership never changing hands just simply put makes the game even more broken. With the fact that all nodes needs to be discovered right at the start of the world or your left out. The idea that someone can at some point take a node have always been the discussion of endgame content but this just puts a nail in that coffin.