HnH Needs Adjustment to Wipe Frequency or Progression

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Re: HnH Needs Adjustment to Wipe Frequency or Progression

Postby Granny » Mon Feb 26, 2024 8:41 pm

HnH tries to cater to two ( perhaps even more) completely different playstyles. Other games have had to succumb and choose one of them, since it is neigh impossible for them to co-exist. Personally I enjoy the one year worlds, and even the longer ones.

But I do not compete.
I give a (%&)O& about keeping up, as long as I can see some form of progression.
I enjoy the content I have the time to enjoy, and then the game lasts a long long time. One of these days I might get enough playtime to do a dungeon. Or maybe even kill a moose. The thing is though - It does not really matter to me so much that I want to skip RL over it. I think I play enough as is.

What I do know is that a shorter wipe frequency would make me stop playing. Maybe that is quite ok for HnH - and the game is not for me or my kind.

I would be terribly sad and miss it horribly of course, but it might be a dedicated choice for the game. What is the demographic of the playerbase? How many do one or the other? Who are the players that they earn money on? That will ultimately be the deciding factor.
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Re: HnH Needs Adjustment to Wipe Frequency or Progression

Postby Robben_DuMarsch » Mon Feb 26, 2024 9:05 pm

Granny wrote:HnH tries to cater to two ( perhaps even more) completely different playstyles. Other games have had to succumb and choose one of them, since it is neigh impossible for them to co-exist. Personally I enjoy the one year worlds, and even the longer ones.

But I do not compete.
I give a (%&)O& about keeping up, as long as I can see some form of progression.
I enjoy the content I have the time to enjoy, and then the game lasts a long long time. One of these days I might get enough playtime to do a dungeon. Or maybe even kill a moose. The thing is though - It does not really matter to me so much that I want to skip RL over it. I think I play enough as is.

What I do know is that a shorter wipe frequency would make me stop playing. Maybe that is quite ok for HnH - and the game is not for me or my kind.

I would be terribly sad and miss it horribly of course, but it might be a dedicated choice for the game. What is the demographic of the playerbase? How many do one or the other? Who are the players that they earn money on? That will ultimately be the deciding factor.


I guess there is a bifurcated solution to this duality of play styles. A permanent world where quality is capped at something, and expedition worlds where you need to start fresh and higher quality and/or access to resources that make them superior in some way to appeal to competitive play, which on completion allow resources to be sent back to the permanent world.
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Re: HnH Needs Adjustment to Wipe Frequency or Progression

Postby jock » Mon Feb 26, 2024 9:14 pm

Robben_DuMarsch wrote:
Granny wrote:HnH tries to cater to two ( perhaps even more) completely different playstyles. Other games have had to succumb and choose one of them, since it is neigh impossible for them to co-exist. Personally I enjoy the one year worlds, and even the longer ones.

But I do not compete.
I give a (%&)O& about keeping up, as long as I can see some form of progression.
I enjoy the content I have the time to enjoy, and then the game lasts a long long time. One of these days I might get enough playtime to do a dungeon. Or maybe even kill a moose. The thing is though - It does not really matter to me so much that I want to skip RL over it. I think I play enough as is.

What I do know is that a shorter wipe frequency would make me stop playing. Maybe that is quite ok for HnH - and the game is not for me or my kind.

I would be terribly sad and miss it horribly of course, but it might be a dedicated choice for the game. What is the demographic of the playerbase? How many do one or the other? Who are the players that they earn money on? That will ultimately be the deciding factor.


I guess there is a bifurcated solution to this duality of play styles. A permanent world where quality is capped at something, and expedition worlds where you need to start fresh and higher quality and/or access to resources that make them superior in some way to appeal to competitive play, which on completion allow resources to be sent back to the permanent world.


SO private server :p
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Re: HnH Needs Adjustment to Wipe Frequency or Progression

Postby Dawidio123 » Mon Feb 26, 2024 9:36 pm

jock wrote:SO private server :p

Splitting the already low population between 2 servers doesn't seem like a great idea or it'll have results similar to the legacy server where barely anyone plays on it. Upkeeping a server just so 10-20 people play on it doesn't seem like a great investment, arguably it could use worse servers to minimize the costs.
I would play the shit out of a W10 settings private server tho ngl
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Re: HnH Needs Adjustment to Wipe Frequency or Progression

Postby Antvgr » Mon Feb 26, 2024 10:48 pm

Robben_DuMarsch wrote:I guess there is a bifurcated solution to this duality of play styles. A permanent world where quality is capped at something, and expedition worlds where you need to start fresh and higher quality and/or access to resources that make them superior in some way to appeal to competitive play, which on completion allow resources to be sent back to the permanent world.


Reminds of crowfall.
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Re: HnH Needs Adjustment to Wipe Frequency or Progression

Postby Clemins » Tue Feb 27, 2024 4:54 am

Speaking of private servers, I am not sure how much money Jorb and Loftar make from Haven each year, but it cannot be enough to fully sustain two guys and their families. However, a thought just occurred to me: allowing private servers would completely destroy any revenue they receive from Haven. Hear me out:

- Modded and custom servers become unavoidable and inevitable, IF these servers can be privately owned and operated (not through some service or J&L's own jerryrigging).

- Custom models (such as hats, whether currently or previously sold) will be freely exchanged.

- Individuals or groups owning servers are immediately controversial, especially given that RMT is a very real thing in Haven. Why bother building a market or grinding anything when in "[100X SPEED - 1000 >>FREE<< SHOP CREDITS - MODDED - 100Q INSTANT BOOST - PAYPAL INTEGRATION INSTANT DELIVERY #1 TOP HAVEN SERVER!!!!]" everything that would have been traded is now openly being sold by server owners; at the very least, creating in-game items requires some effort... Not to mention, no way in hell are either of the developers seeing any of that revenue. The fact that RMT isn't even typically and retroactively punished is concerning, let alone handing out private servers that can completely avoid this and be blatant about it.

These are just some of the few, but the main reasons (besides some more of the obvious and very VERY frequently given) why this is a horrible idea from the standpoint of the developers. However, if they ever cease development and don't care about maintaining the game anymore, obviously I hope they hand over all the code and servers so Haven can live on in the community. But as long as that's not on the table, frankly, I'd like to keep what little incentive the developers have left to maintain this game alive.
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Re: HnH Needs Adjustment to Wipe Frequency or Progression

Postby abt79 » Tue Feb 27, 2024 5:28 am

I’ve been thinking about this a lot.

Frequent wipes would actually just suck.
Ultra competitive pvp players would just stop playing after like the third consecutive wipe and hermits wouldn’t fare much better, here’s why:

For the hermits, haven progression is an even more tedious chore and part of the satisfaction comes from the benefits you’ve slowly built up. Now I haven’t played as a hermit since legacy but….do they even have livestock by month 3? Or a minehole? I don’t imagine “everything gets nuked just before you reach a big threshold progression gate” will not make them enjoy the game more and the fact that it generally takes them more than a year to get through the game’s pve progression means that wipes might not even be rare enough, for them anyway.

For the pros, part of what makes wipes special, or fun, is their infrequency. This is because, and pardon the bluntness, it allows them time to forget how banal and tedious earlygame progression (or the gameplay in general) actually is, to remember thru rose-tinted glasses only those fleeting moments of glory bashing pyres/claims, or stealing hides, or cracking open a new mine level first, or winning the first meteor fight, or whatever.

Maybe I’m a coldhearted cynic. But maybe Wipe Hype is just a lie that doesn’t stand up to the immediacy constant wipes would provide. If…….hypothetically……..haven consistently leaves players with a feeling of desperate pointlessness, maybe it’s best not to remind them of that too often. Leave time for dragon you chase to make headway, and the void to yawn wider.
Last edited by abt79 on Tue Feb 27, 2024 5:34 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: HnH Needs Adjustment to Wipe Frequency or Progression

Postby springyb » Tue Feb 27, 2024 5:34 am

Granny wrote: and the game is not for me or my kind.


Nonsense.
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Re: HnH Needs Adjustment to Wipe Frequency or Progression

Postby Robben_DuMarsch » Tue Feb 27, 2024 7:53 am

abt79 wrote:For the hermits, haven progression is an even more tedious chore and part of the satisfaction comes from the benefits you’ve slowly built up. Now I haven’t played as a hermit since legacy but….do they even have livestock by month 3? Or a minehole? I don’t imagine “everything gets nuked just before you reach a big threshold progression gate” will not make them enjoy the game more and the fact that it generally takes them more than a year to get through the game’s pve progression means that wipes might not even be rare enough, for them anyway.

For the pros, part of what makes wipes special, or fun, is their infrequency. This is because, and pardon the bluntness, it allows them time to forget how banal and tedious earlygame progression (or the gameplay in general) actually is, to remember thru rose-tinted glasses only those fleeting moments of glory bashing pyres/claims, or stealing hides, or cracking open a new mine level first, or winning the first meteor fight, or whatever.

Maybe I’m a coldhearted cynic. But maybe Wipe Hype is just a lie that doesn’t stand up to the immediacy constant wipes would provide. If…….hypothetically……..haven consistently leaves players with a feeling of desperate pointlessness, maybe it’s best not to remind them of that too often. Leave time for dragon you chase to make headway, and the void to yawn wider.


I disagree, and I think quite the opposite. Early progression isn't a tedious chore, but the most fun part of the game. It's the late game progression that is a tedious chore. I think if we were able to go through consistent cycles of early game progression, enough people would play the game that the community could thrive. "Joining" HnH when there are 300 players on the server and every village is in lategame maintenance mode isn't particularly attractive. But if you were to log into the server and the server was still fresh and active, or it was *about* to be wiped again and people were doing pre-wipe recruitment, you would find a place to play very readily.

Sure, some people would take a break for other games, or for IRL reasons, and skip a wipe or two. Also maybe the wipe would lose the "oh fuck, I better not miss this, because it's only once every 14 months" FOMO. But that's fine. Even if those veterans only played only 1 out of every 3 wipes, they'd be playing 3 months out of every 9. That's better than 3 months out of every 14 that we have right now.

But for veterans that actually enjoy HnH's progression, and want to play it consistently, they'd stick around and play consistently... and provide a healthier habitat for other new joiners to stick around as well.
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Re: HnH Needs Adjustment to Wipe Frequency or Progression

Postby SnuggleSnail » Tue Feb 27, 2024 11:37 am

Most early game progression is the same as late game progression, except you also have to build some stuff and numbers go up faster.

week 2: quality comes from mining + hunting highQ animals + 4 or 5 dungeon runs / feps come from fishing + hunting
week 54: quality comes from mining + hunting highQ quested animals / feps come from whatever 3 foods you decided to specialize in
week 227: quality comes from mining + hunting highQ quested animals + flaxQ a little bit / feps come from whatever 3 foods you decided to specialize in

Some stuff like questing and livestock quality being absurd asscancer ruins the late game rly being 'fair', but the moment to moment actions you take are very similar. What you're feeling is just higher population, more active friends, less burnout, and the novelty of a rare world reset.
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