Salem store vs Hafen store which does it better?

[Try∞]

I have been playing a bit of both and noticed that the same devs created both games. But looking at the stores Hafen is more cosmetic based mainly on hats which would be kinda boring if not for those moviing/alive hats. While on the other hand we got Salem which sells in game currency, starter packs to be ahead of other players which is kinda pay to win and hard to get resources which is mainly pay to win if you can't be bothered to spend a lot of time to get those silver coins (in game currency).
But now the question which would be more profitable and which one is more fair on the players?

[SacreDoom]

I feel like that's a pretty obvious answer you're asking for. What even is the point of this thread?

[Lyrroth]

Fair is always more where You can't buy huge gap closers like rare materials.

Purely cosmetic is the best option in terms of fairness.

Sadly, in most cases, unfair IS usually produce more money than cosmetic, since people with money don't have a problem with that. Look at china, they are so into that, there is normal for them to buy a better position, where we are causing uprising for such thing in IS or generally inside game.

[MagicManICT]

Well, a sub gets you a convenience here which I would argue is no different than some of the perks sold in the Salem store. If you have a lot of chores to do, it can certainly make a huge difference in how much time you have to spend online to build your character up. As it is, neither really is the "P2W" type of transaction as you can always just spend more time playing to make up the difference. Short of combat, the only advantage both offer are shortcuts to get your character "combat ready" faster.

[VDZ]

Well, a sub gets you a convenience here which I would argue is no different than some of the perks sold in the Salem store. If you have a lot of chores to do, it can certainly make a huge difference in how much time you have to spend online to build your character up. As it is, neither really is the "P2W" type of transaction as you can always just spend more time playing to make up the difference. Short of combat, the only advantage both offer are shortcuts to get your character "combat ready" faster.

I consider Haven practically a pay-to-play game as you're at a significant disadvantage without a subscription. The difference between a practically mandatory subscription and true P2W, however, is that the subscription just requires a flat fee to receive the same advantage any other paying player receives, whereas in true P2W you get increasingly more advantage the more you pay, either to a practically endless extent or to such an extent you would be paying a ridiculous amount just to get the maximum advantage.

I don't think 'you can spend more time to make up the difference' makes something not pay to win, especially not in a game like Haven where somebody growing their character faster than you can use their superior stats to murder your weaker character if both started around the same time. Consider the extreme version: If free players only received 1% of the LP subscribers receive, would it still not be pay to win because they can just play 100 times as much to reach the same result? Of course that would be pay to win. Time is a resource too, and having to invest 100 times as much of a resource to get the same result is a huge disadvantage.

For that matter, there are more advantages to a subscription than saving time. The LP boost also means you get more LP out of the same curiosities, meaning you save materials on curiosities; it doesn't take longer without a subscription (increased learning time), it takes more curios (lower yield per curio). The inventory space is also a huge deal. Inventory-expanding items are among the most valuable goods in the Haven economy, and for good reason. Especially in the early game, being able to take more goods home from a trip is a great advantage.

Strictly speaking, in Haven you definitely need to 'pay to win'. But it's a tolerable form of 'pay to win' because once you've paid the verification fee (one-time game purchase) and the reasonable subscription fee, everybody is on a level playing field again game mechanics-wise, with no way to gain further advantage by paying real cash (not counting unsupported stuff like RMT).

[shubla]

You can buy both of them and sell to players to get items,. but then again, you could probably buy items from players with real money even if there was no store item.

Benefit that you get from subscription is large, but its not pay2win. In salem there are plenty of items that you can buy, each of them being pretty overpowered, for example, you can buy skull that allows you to murder people. Or last-will which allows better inheritance of your character. Also, just straight out, silver coins, which you can buy lots of items with from stands that are easily accessible and partially managed by the devs.

Of course, you could do the same with sub tokens that you do with coins. But they are different in a way.

[painhertz]

Salem still exists? But....why?

[pawnchito]

I like the subscription model. Devs gotta eat and they are pushing updates so I feel more like I'm contributing to a game that will continue to have content. It's also not anything huge in terms of power, like the hardcores are going to take this bonus and be able to play 24 -7 so it's just convenience. I think I'd have an issue if there was a larger power gap or enough to feel compelled to have to buy it to even experience the game fully.

[shubla]

I like the subscription model. Devs gotta eat and they are pushing updates so I feel more like I'm contributing to a game that will continue to have content. It's also not anything huge in terms of power, like the hardcores are going to take this bonus and be able to play 24 -7 so it's just convenience. I think I'd have an issue if there was a larger power gap or enough to feel compelled to have to buy it to even experience the game fully.

Subscription model is good. You can buy 1 subscription and its enough. If there would be individual pay2win items (like xp potions and lp boosters), you would never have enough of them.

[vatas]

Both Salem and Hafen are far cry from truly cancerous pay2win that Korean MMORPGs offer. I remember watching video about either Archeage or Black Desert Online. It claimed that it would take something like 1000 USD investment if you wanted to get into high-end PvP (or at least without months of grinding.)