A warning for survival larpers

[shubla]

So I decided to go camping partly because of H&H would be nice to commune with nature etc.

-3 celsius for night and day, no wind really. That means that there are no moisture/wetness problems and maybe even some snow, so pretty nice weather?
Lakes surely would not freeze when its -3c for a few days, right? right?
Well, apparently they do.

I walked around 2 hours deep into the forest and decided to settle next to a lake, brought only 0.5L of water with me (little of which was remaining after setting up the camp), because it's surprisingly hard to carry a bucket of water or 30 waterskins in your belt in RL!
I thought that I would set up my camp next to a lake (which I did) and then just go get some water from lake whenever I need it.
But as I mentioned earlier, all of the lakes were 100% frozen...
Soon after setting up my camp I realized that I only had maybe ½ dl of water left.
I had no tools to break the ice, and it would be very dangerous activity in any case to walk on it, because the ice may break, and survival chances are quite slim if I'd get wet and phone would have broken down (otherwise I could call a chopper or something), even if I could get up from the water..

Luckily with my sophisticated knowledge of nature and problem solving skills I quickly realized that maybe I could find some water in its easily accessible liquid form from a nearby stream, as there was a stream between two lakes in the map, and surely flowing water wouldn't have frozen down from the top yet.
I was right and now had a water source, how wonderful. BUT, I had to walk 40+ minutes in dark and slippery forest paths with LOTS of ascents and descents only to get ½ a liter of water, which I could only drink after getting back to camp and boiling it. I spent total of 4 hours just retrieving water between this day and yesterday..

In the dark cold forest I started startling every stump and stone, seeing wolves and bears everywhere...
Even though in Finland, last time a human was killed by a wolf was in 1882, and bear 1998 (which was the first and only one during the whole century)
Added with the fact that there are 0 sightings of bears/wolves in the area that I was camping in, any serious encounter is quite unlikely. (Though it could be argued that such animals are less afraid of humans and thus more dangerous as they may get too close and get scared and attack, as the place for camping is quite popular amongst humans)

So in short: be aware that lakes will freeze with very, very little coldness!

Very frozen indeed.

A salvation.

edit: also I slept only 2 hours because my mattress was not insulating enough so I was shaking from coldness through the whole night.

Share your camping experiences below!!

[tyrtix]

Beign a nature people myself and went camping since i was basically born, with my family, i know a lot about cold weather...this went over the top when i started competitive airsoft some time ago, and while many people cannot believe it, winter in Italy can become very cold in a matter of hours.

Here, tactical camp, good for under 0° temperature, i use another kind of bedroll if it's colder than that; i can fit all the stuff needed for 24h camp, including 2lt water and food for 2 meals, into a 28lt backpack.

[shubla]

Beign a nature people myself and went camping since i was basically born, with my family, i know a lot about cold weather...this went over the top when i started competitive airsoft some time ago, and while many people cannot believe it, winter in Italy can become very cold in a matter of hours.

Here, tactical camp, good for under 0° temperature, i use another kind of bedroll if it's colder than that; i can fit all the stuff needed for 24h camp, including 2lt water and food for 2 meals, into a 28lt backpack.

Camping with only small amount of equipment fascinates me, but it may be too hardcore for me. Some proper tent that doesn't cost a fortune is at least 1.5kgs, mine being around 1.9kg, a proper sleeping bag is around 1kg. Both taking up way more space than a small bag can provide. Add all the small crap to that and it becomes quite a load!

Luckily in Finland, weather is hard to predict accurately for more than a few days, but those few days will often be very, very accurate, so there is no risk of it turning too much colder if the trip is only a few days.

I used this as a bedroll, but as mentioned above, it was absolutely not enough for -3c, have to dig into what would be good for colder temperatures. The softness was enough as I often sleep in rather hard mattresses anyway.

Single layer "tent" like that is probably a very moist experience to sleep in? Although light to carry.

[tyrtix]

The basha you see in my pic is made with a poncho strapped at two trees, a bivvy bag and sleeping bag from snugpack, both reach 3 kg in weight, add 300 gr for poncho. Bivvy bag have an opening and is partially mesh but can be totally closed so if it rains you will stay dry, this configuration is easily good for 0°. I don't use any mattress, or if it's cold and wet, i add a layer of moss, boughs and leaves on the ground so i do not touch directly it and loose a lot of body heat, the poncho basha helps an awful lot with wind and, in this case, it makes the shelter basically invisible until you get at a few meters away from it.

There are sleeping bags around that will reach -13° comfort temperature and are under 1.5kg of weight (i used to sell military equipment, i have a couple of different sleeping bags myself).

Start with some average equipment: the most satisfying thing i find in staying in the wild is to wake up in the morning, and have a tea or coffee while having slept perfectly fine even in the middle of nowhere.
Pic of the backpack filled with a "bit of stuff" i used during this 24h outside.

[MagicManICT]

Man, all this modern tech makes even the worst of harsh climate camping comfortable.

Me, I love camping, but hate the biting wind of doing it in the winter. Temps around here bounce from arctic-like (0 F/-18 C, colder with wind chill) to almost spring/fall (highs of 60 F/15 C) in a matter of days. It's about impossible to prepare for anything like that, which just makes it worse. Props to you guys that can do it.

[tyrtix]

Man, all this modern tech makes even the worst of harsh climate camping comfortable.

Me, I love camping, but hate the biting wind of doing it in the winter. Temps around here bounce from arctic-like (0 F/-18 C, colder with wind chill) to almost spring/fall (highs of 60 F/15 C) in a matter of days. It's about impossible to prepare for anything like that, which just makes it worse. Props to you guys that can do it.

It's still not easy to camp outside without proper knowledge: you can still get hypothermia even if you have comfortable clothing and a good sleeping bag, or beign unable to sleep totally, just because you choose the place to stay poorly, or you can burn everything you have by just lighting a campfire in the wrong way (a thing i've seen happening once, luckily no one got wounded).

Example: if you pick a depressed area and make camp there, you can be flooded by rainwater if it rains, and in little time...very bad!
You in canada, right magic? I guess without proper equipment, it's impossible to stay outside there during winter, or even summer probably.

[shubla]

I don't use any mattress, or if it's cold and wet, i add a layer of moss, boughs and leaves on the ground so i do not touch directly it and loose a lot of body heat,

Moss and especially bough probably works, but not an option when you camp around areas that are protected. (Actually camping outside of the areas designated for camping was not allowed but I camped outside nevertheless, found some nice place not visible from any of the paths in top of some solid rock with thin layer of moss, so there would be minimal impact from the tent)

I did read before camping that the "suggested" insulation value is 4+ during winter, and my mattress has like insulation value of 1. (linear value) But I thought that it cannot be so bad as I have sleeping bag designated for "comfortable sleep" in -5c etc. but the sleeping bag seems to have no effect on the coldness coming from below. If its a bit warmer like +5 or +10 it's probably enough though.

Me, I love camping, but hate the biting wind of doing it in the winter.

-18c is not that bad even with wind, if you have enough proper types of clothing.
But yeah, I feel like even a little coldness (and slipperiness) turns it more of into a survival battle than a nice trip to the nature.
If its cold, its 1 mistake and its a life threatening situation immediately. (Wetness, losing of some equipment etc.) During warmer months you don't have to worry too much about stuff like that.

[Fostik]

It looks like you underestimated danger of such camping.
There are a lot of examples of deaths in cold weathers.

[Dondy]

I know very little about survival, but this I do know. Placement of your shelter sleeping spot is critical. The temperature can vary by as much as ten degrees at ground level. Coldness pools in hollows. So instead of looking for a sheltered hollow to curl up in look for a place that is elevated but sheltered. And then before you do anything else get a layer of brush, pine needles, boughs, cardboard, grass -anything to make a foot of insulation between you and the ground.

Then make your lean to or pitch your tent.

If you are going to boil your water and it will only be a few degrees above freezing you might as well go with ice, and melt it.

The hardest thing about trying to stay alive in winter can be lighting a fire. A fire needs heat, fuel and oxygen. Even with tinder and a flame it can be too cold to light, so you may need to pick your fire spot with the same care as the spot you sleep. Someone once described to me making camp in the winter. They picked their spot for the fire and the tiredest member of the party sat down on it for twenty minutes while they gathered up the tinder and fuel and built windbreaks so that the spot was as warm as possible before they built and lit the fire.

I was recently reading about the death of an arctic explorer. He couldn't light his lamp because it was so cold the wick of his lamp would not catch flame. He needed that for warmth in his shelter and died there as a result.

Computer tech is very complicated - so is historic tech. You want to know the details of the properties of things like bark and roots to just get by, let alone do well. I have no idea to tell one spruce root from another, but I do know that's the type of tree to look for if I want to get fibre, (spindly tap root) at least in the part of the world where I live. "Look for roots" is advice like "Use a development environment." You still need someone to find it for you on the computer and explain what how a development environment is used if you are a rank beginner.

[Jalpha]

Sleeping mat (closed cell), sleeping bag, tarp. Only main items of kit you need for sleeping out. Tents are only necessary if you are going to be sleeping in open fields. Mosquito net is necessary depending on location and season. I do not like bivvy bags, condensation builds up on the inside. Especially over extended periods, and the limited internal airflow makes them totally useless in warm climates. I also avoid fire when /out/ but for mostly different reasons. Grew up in Australia. Conditions there are different. The cold mystifies and terrifies me in almost equal portions. I will stay inside during the winter.

Lived in a forest for around a year in one stretch so I have some experience. Happiest I've ever been. All the local animals came out to introduce themselves gradually. Some took longer than others. My favourite was the perentie. I never felt lonely. Decided I like animals more than people because they are way less complicated. Until a spider bit me on the toe. Fun times.

Get /out/.