Permanent death (good or bad)

[Orcling]

"Oh noes i lost everything when i got killed by someone now i'll never catch up!" is not a good excuse. He could have died too. The risk is the same for everyone.

I don't think that's how it works in permadeath games ^^
Usually the side initiating combat does that when it's sure it's going to win.
Any risk means people port or run back to hide behind walls ^^

Raiders take risks too, y'know. You can never be sure just how strong, many there are. Whoever they are attacking could also have backup on the way.
If some people are ahead, that just means that they were willing to take risks or work harder than everyone else.
You're outnumbered? Make more friends. Your equipment is inferior? Get better equipment.
The system is 100% fair.

[Sollar]

My opinion is divided in this matter. I can't make up my minf if i love or hate the permadeath system.

My first contact with this game was in W5, and it was love at first sight. I loved it so much that I had it installed at home and at work and played pretty much non-stop. I was such a noob that I built everything wihtout any walls or claim. It was just a matter of time until some high armored character dropped me dead in 1 shot in front of my own house. When I realized that I lost everything I just quit (I think I even left a QQ post on the forums at that time cursing the permadeath system). Strange thing though, even if I raged-quit and never touched the game again, I always kept en eye on the forums, and joined again at the start of both W6 and W7. If I'm not mistaken in W6 I got adopted by a russian village and got my longest session. Even if everyone here has a hatred for the russians, I have to hand it to them, they were playing pretty hardcore, and they helped pe raise my character into high stats, and I began taming animals for them. I got killed by an arucho herd, when I made a stupid taming mistake. I once again quit the game due to the permadeath system. In the mean time I played Salem till I got bored to death, and returned to HnH W7 where I played as a hermit until I got bored and quit. I am now here, I so love this game that I subscribed, I play it as much as I can, and I got my mind prepared in case my character dies - "It's a game where death is iminent and final, I have to survive the most and enjoy it the most until my time comes". So I'm not so concerned now about death (I also spawned some alts just in case). Anyway, I managed to play Salem for like 2 years and not die, so I'm pretty sure that my playstyle might be safe.

I'm not bothered so much from the permadeath system as I'm bothered by botting. And bots are starting to show in this game too. I have a claim close to mine where fresh naked slave spawns level the ground 24/7 until they die. Due to the poor pathfinding I managed to screw their behaviour, but I have better things to do in the game than act as a barrier for bots.

My final statement about the permadeath is the follwing
I don't mind getting killed by a player that played more and earned more and faster experience and skills than me. We all started fresh and had the same opportunities.
I do mind a lot though if I am killed by a character that has higher stats than me only because an army of bots made sure he has enough curios, food, or whatever the hell do bots this days.

Botting is cheating and I am more concerned about what the devs are doing to stop this, than if they consider removing the permadeath from the game.

[Lunarius_Haberdash]

For the record, I'm not a griefer or a raider, and I love this game for being permadeath.

Dying sucks, for the record.

[g1real]

What are you thinking about it?

First of all, congratulations on having the courage to bring up the big elephant in the room.



I think permadeath doesn't have a place in a long term MMO with deep levels of progression and PvP, especially not in the state of "a meeting with a player can end in you losing all your progression in seconds". But I respect jorb and loftar's decision that that's the niche they feel/want to fill. As such I have decided long ago that I will stop playing after I die (or grow bored* ).

The last time I was murdered was in 2009, by voodoodog in world 1 I believe. The last time a character with significant progression died was in world 4, when I drowned trying to pick up a floating log in a deep river. And was subsequently resurrected for god knows what reason I managed to convince them. Thus, permadeath hasn't REALLY been an issue, and I like it that way. I think a factor is that I don't die often because that I avoid PvP like the plague due to the permadeath mechanics. The build-up isn't worth the payoff whatsoever. I normally enjoy PvP in games immensely, I've gotten huge adrenaline rushes being ganked in WoW, Darkfall Online, Eve Online and other open world MMOs. And it's funny to me because, WoW doesn't have any significant value loss on death and Eve/Darkfall much less than in Haven. But somehow, subconciously, I value my life much more (at times) in those games than in Haven.

* I tend to grow bored after a month or two of playing anyway, since lategame is either quality grind, socializing or PvP. I like Haven in concept and early/midgame gameplay, it's just that you eventually burn through content and it just becomes repetition with no challenge, because there's a severe lack of lategame PvE content.

[Ants]

I dislike permadeath but I play the game anyways because the rest of the game is fun. I just avoid pvp like the plague and never hunt animals unless I have a cliff nearby. I'll probably create an alt soon just to be sure that I won't lose all my stats if I die.

The last time I was killed was in 2011 when I was mauled by a bear. I ragequit but came back several years later. In the old haven, dying as a hermit without alts meant having to start over from scratch. It could take weeks of boring work to make your character useful again, and to me it just wasn't worth it.

[Robben_DuMarsch]

I dislike how Perma - death is debilitating to people that don't alt, but a much lesser inconvenience to those that do.

[Bowshot125]

Too bad to get ahead you have to bot/script/alt. :p

[Ostara]

Probably wouldnt play this game if it didnt have perma death.

[Redkat]

Honestly I dont particularly like permadeath. I get the thrill for others but feels that there are too many random killings in the game. That won't change I know. Such are the players here.

I just lost a farmer and now I cant do anything for a while. Same happened late in w7 - took forever to be able to harvest my own crops again. Same reason I avoid any combat like the plague. I would prefer to only have one toon but since I got murdered already in W8 I kinda have to get alts just to be able to walk outside a wall and once in a while do other stuff than crafting/farming. I will now hide my toon behind walls and I feel sad for it.

[Sevenless]

I personally think that permadeath is as much a gem of this game as it is a flaw. Haven as a game could possibly be better without permadeath and/or statloss than it is now. But that wouldn't be the same game and much of how haven works would need a rebalance. Furthermore the devs want this game permadeath and it *is* their game to make, I don't see the point in arguing since it's their hard work creating it. Haven stands out for being that when no other longterm populated mmo I'm aware of uses permadeath as a core mechanic.

As to the permadeath we have now vs what we had in legacy. Legacy was unfair, that system punished crafters more than it punished warriors for death and that's ass backwards. Being prepared for death in legacy made it trivial and in some cases downright beneficial for warriors and miners. Crafters had no such option as they needed both LP and FEP as well as needing to leave the safety of base without proper means to defend themselves.

As is, I do not want halfsies permadeath. All or nothing, at least this way it's fair.